Sudden huge mite drop!?

[charlievictorbravo]

I have been giving my problem hive some thought over the last few days. It was the strongest hive in terms of honey and is in a 14x12 brood box, it is still stuffed with bees.

It occurs to me that that may be the problem - there are so many bees in there that they are blocking the upward routes for the vapour ( a little may get up the beespace beside the side bars of the frames) so the bulk of the dose maybe only gets a half or two-thirds of the way up the frames - remember, this vapour is only convecting; it is not under external positive pressure. Is it possible that, in a deep hive with lots of bees, the vapour just does not get to the top of the hive and this happens time and time again during vapings while there is brood with lots of bees? OK, the bees distribute what small OA crystals condense on the lower part of the hive, but if the vapour is not getting to the top due to the volume of bees, maybe this is what our problem is.

Remind me, Erichalfbee, is your problem hive in a deep box stuffed with bees?

CVB

 

[Erichalfbee]

Remind me, Erichalfbee, is your problem hive in a deep box stuffed with bees?

CVB

It is.......but so are the others.
I have, in the past lifted the crown board with a coin in one corner until I saw vapour...but not this year.

I would buy a Sublimox if it weren't for the fact that it needs mains power.
I was told that it would run off a car with an inverter......If that's the case then I might look at that.

 

[Beefriendly]

I'm not giving in!
Just done 10th vape today......
There cannot be many mites left in this damn colony. I'm going to give them a 2 week break now.
If my problem colony had been one headed by my expensive Island mated queens then I would have given in quite a while back.

Gave them an 11th tester 2 days ago...6 mites dropped over 48 hours PHEW...Job done...although a little tedious, it can be done.
Memo to self...don't let levels escalate to this level.
Rest of hives fine and now dropping very few mites.

 

[Beefriendly]

I was told that it would run off a car with an inverter......If that's the case then I might look at that.

It will (need one of 300watts minimum output), ran mine from one for a while but ended up forking out for a suitcase generator as lighter and more portable than battery.

 

[Etton]

I have been giving my problem hive some thought over the last few days. It was the strongest hive in terms of honey and is in a 14x12 brood box, it is still stuffed with bees.

It occurs to me that that may be the problem - there are so many bees in there that they are blocking the upward routes for the vapour ( a little may get up the beespace beside the side bars of the frames) so the bulk of the dose maybe only gets a half or two-thirds of the way up the frames - remember, this vapour is only convecting; it is not under external positive pressure. Is it possible that, in a deep hive with lots of bees, the vapour just does not get to the top of the hive and this happens time and time again during vapings while there is brood with lots of bees? OK, the bees distribute what small OA crystals condense on the lower part of the hive, but if the vapour is not getting to the top due to the volume of bees, maybe this is what our problem is.

Remind me, Erichalfbee, is your problem hive in a deep box stuffed with bees?

CVB

This is why per my previous post I have added an Apiguard tray to my top brood box, I have a nadired super which I think restricts the flow of the OA vapour. That’s why next year I will vape pre nadiring ie with the supers uppermost or off altogether.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Gave them an 11th tester 2 days ago...6 mites dropped over 48 hours PHEW...Job done...although a little tedious, it can be done.
Memo to self...don't let levels escalate to this level.
Rest of hives fine and now dropping very few mites.

Phew!
After Apitraz
My problem hive dropped 180,400,200,195,209,200,175, then 75 daily for5 days and 50 today. Well at least it's downward.

 

[Beefriendly]

Phew!
After Apitraz
My problem hive dropped 180,400,200,195,209,200,175, then 75 daily for5 days and 50 today. Well at least it's downward.

Apitraz is a slow burner...really need sthe 6 weeks...so heading in right direction. Mule headness made me stick it out with OA.
Still puzzled by it though, as rest of hives have been fine with 4 treatments.

 

[fatshark]

Phew!
After Apitraz
My problem hive dropped 180,400,200,195,209,200,175, then 75 daily for5 days and 50 today. Well at least it's downward.

I think this should be posted on the mitekeeper forums ...

Back to the sublimating full hives issue. I've got clear crownboards on most of my colonies. Even with the really busy boxes there's no real issue in getting vapour spread throughout the box. I can watch it appear. My crownboards are deep, with insulation on the top. I use them inverted with the insulation removed over a split block of fondant (my choice of feed, no need for anyone to comment, I have my reasons!). As a consequence the bees have a bit more elbow room and move up the sides of the 'eke' and spread across the exposed bits of the top bars.

I use a Sublimox and deliver vapour through a 6mm hole drilled through the sidewall of the floor. OMF closed and entrance blocked obviously.

CVB ... do you treat when they're all at home (evening, cold day, in the rain) or when the box might be expected to be a bit less busy?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think this should be posted on the mitekeeper forums ...

Spot on
I have stopped counting 8500 and still rolling
Amazingly the colony is still big and busy
Having lost some hives over the winter of 2015 with PMS you'd think I would be on the ball more.
To echo Beefriendly....only the one colony out of eight is like this. Two are almost mite-less

 

[rook66]

Phew!
After Apitraz
My problem hive dropped 180,400,200,195,209,200,175, then 75 daily for5 days and 50 today. Well at least it's downward.

It would be interesting to track this hive post Apitraz and maybe vape after the 6/8 week treatment to measure the efficacy.

 

[Kenson]

EricA, et al.....

If the "Sublimox" only needs 300w.... Maplin have a 24v 600w Inverter for £15. (A23JG)

It will not need "Full car Batteries", 2 of their R83VE 12v Deep Cycle Batteries will do I think, they are more expensive at £22 each, but should last a long time. That should make up into a neat little "portable inverter".

Alternatively they do a 12v 300w inverter for £40, and then just £22 for the battery.

Either way it's ~£60 and you have "Portable 240v Power".

You could so it cheaper following an assault on ebay.

If anyone wants to do this, I could make them up if you pay for the bits

(My own one is a 3kw monster, but I am thinking of a more portable one so will probably launch into it over the next few weeks and can make a few as easy as one)

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I think this should be posted on the mitekeeper forums ...
.........
CVB ... do you treat when they're all at home (evening, cold day, in the rain) or when the box might be expected to be a bit less busy?

I generally treat in the evening, when they are all at home. I use a passive vapouriser with 2.5 gm OA-based treatment inserted from the rear of of an underfloor entrance, so the vapour has to pass through the OMF before entering the brood box.

The daily drops since inserting the Apivar treatment are 174, 257, 157, 103, 107, 108, 87, 160, 133. The 3-day moving average has reduced from 196 to 127 in 7 days so it, like Erichalfbee's, is going in the right direction but it's still a puzzle as to why the 8 OA treatments that preceded the Apivar did not work.

CVB

 

[Beefriendly]

I started off this way, but bought a cheap generator..lighter and less leads.....if anyone's interested I have a rarely used 1000watt inverter going cheap.

 

[Eyeman]

I generally treat in the evening, when they are all at home. I use a passive vapouriser with 2.5 gm OA-based treatment inserted from the rear of of an underfloor entrance, so the vapour has to pass through the OMF before entering the brood box.

The daily drops since inserting the Apivar treatment are 174, 257, 157, 103, 107, 108, 87, 160, 133. The 3-day moving average has reduced from 196 to 127 in 7 days so it, like Erichalfbee's, is going in the right direction but it's still a puzzle as to why the 8 OA treatments that preceded the Apivar did not work.

CVB

They say "it's good to rotate treatments"
Oxalic acid clearly may not be the silver bullet we thought it might be.
My main assault on mites will alway be mid winter time. At other times my aim with OA is to knock the mites back.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why are people suggesting that the oxalic might not be working? How can a colony drop in excess of 7 thousand mites with oxalic if it isn't working? Something else is afoot. The other seven hives are fine.

 

[Erichalfbee]

EricA, et al.....

If the "Sublimox" only needs 300w.... Maplin have a 24v 600w Inverter for £15. (A23JG)

It will not need "Full car Batteries", 2 of their R83VE 12v Deep Cycle Batteries will do I think, they are more expensive at £22 each, but should last a long time. That should make up into a neat little "portable inverter".

Alternatively they do a 12v 300w inverter for £40, and then just £22 for the battery.

Either way it's ~£60 and you have "Portable 240v Power".

You could so it cheaper following an assault on ebay.

If anyone wants to do this, I could make them up if you pay for the bits

(My own one is a 3kw monster, but I am thinking of a more portable one so will probably launch into it over the next few weeks and can make a few as easy as one)

Thanks for that
I was expecting to drive the car down to the hives and keep the engine running or have I got the wrong end of the stick here

 

[Swarm]

Why are people suggesting that the oxalic might not be working? How can a colony drop in excess of 7 thousand mites with oxalic if it isn't working? Something else is afoot. The other seven hives are fine.

Absolutely! The Apivar strips are only doing what the OAV has done. Where are they coming from should be the question.

 

[fatshark]

Robbing a weak hive elsewhere? Mangum demonstrated this could lead to about 75 mites per day being acquired by a colony.

 

[Beefriendly]

If this was the case then why would the other 9 or 10 colonies in my garden apiaries have not joined in as well? I had only the one rogue colony with difficult to treat mites. No other beekeepers within 1 bee mile although unknown feral colonies can't be excluded. Their stores were going backwards which was when I noticed the DWV so not sure I can see robbing as being the answer here.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Robbing a weak hive elsewhere? Mangum demonstrated this could lead to about 75 mites per day being acquired by a colony.

That’s what I put it down to but so many people have told me it’s not so likely over a prolonged six week period. Looking at the number of neglected boxes around me I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly what they were doing