Storing supers for winter

[bignikki]

Does treating them with acetic acid before storing them either wet or dry not keep them free from waxmoth. And also any Nosema spores?

 

[lindsay s]

We store them wet like lindsay s, and we label them with hive no, apiary and condition written on the duct tape with a sharpie so that we don't swap supers between hives; it lessens the chance of spreading disease between hives and apiaries.

Sealing 20 - 25 supers in black bin bags is a job that I don’t really look forward to but it’s worth it in the long run. I would hate to do 40 hives worth

 

[Tony Slater]

I dont think holmbee is concerned if it needs approval to use it. But since it is no longer approved it is hard to obtain.

And regarding approval, if you want to get technical...

Pesticides can only be used for approved purposes. Unless it has been specifically approved for a given purpose and states so in the supporting literature, then technically it is not legal to use it in that way.

There are currently no products I know of that are approved for use on bee frames outside the hive.

To my understanding there is a complication regarding jurisdiction. I may or may not have been told the regulators cannot decide if it should be classed as a wood treatment, wax treatment, or bee/hive treatment. Basically there is not a nice place for it in their current classification and regulatory structure.

To my knowledge there are no established guidelines for a test system in practice to produce the data to present to the regulators. And if you did invent a protical and somehow get something approved, you may end up repeatedly retesting as the guidelines evolve over time in order to maintain your approval - very expensive.

It would also involve very long studies, ie, treating frames, overwintering, then exposing bees to the treated frames. Then the regulators may decide they want a residue accumulation study over 3 applications, then you are talking years.

So for any manufacture producing a wax-moth pesticide its just not worth the expense and delays it would cause. Especially when you consider the quantities bee keepers will use compared to other farmers.

So in short "You do need a licensed product to kill wax moth larvae in stored frames"

However that being said, I dont know of a single case of a bee keeper being put in prion for misappropriate use of pesticides!

And sorry for the rant, it is not my intention to belittle you. My work is related to this kind of stuff, so unlike bee keeping is a topic I actually have some knowledge on.

It’s the same for oxalic acid. Who would go to the expense and trouble of getting this cheap chemical licensed for use on varroa when there is nothing in it for them.

 

[Jules59]

Stored dry in my garage.
Last year I stacked them in a single column with a board on the bottom and on top and taped the joints with packing tape. Then placed 80% acetic acid in a container placed in the top super from which it evaporated.
I didnt have any wax moth in them last year - but it was the first time I've used acetic acid.
They still smelled strongly of vinegar when I got them out to use this season. But I found airing for 24 hrs pretty much removed the smell.

 

[bobba]

It’s the same for oxalic acid. Who would go to the expense and trouble of getting this cheap chemical licensed for use on varroa when there is nothing in it for them.

As far as I know, Oxuvar, Oxybee, VarroMed and Api-Bioxal all contain OA and are (or were) approved.

Api-Bioxal is the only one approved to be applied by vape.

However they are not for treating frames outside the hive.

 

[holmbee]

I dont think holmbee is concerned if it needs approval to use it. But since it is no longer approved it is hard to obtain.

And regarding approval, if you want to get technical...

Pesticides can only be used for approved purposes. Unless it has been specifically approved for a given purpose and states so in the supporting literature, then technically it is not legal to use it in that way.

There are currently no products I know of that are approved for use on bee frames outside the hive.

To my understanding there is a complication regarding jurisdiction. I may or may not have been told the regulators cannot decide if it should be classed as a wood treatment, wax treatment, or bee/hive treatment. Basically there is not a nice place for it in their current classification and regulatory structure.

To my knowledge there are no established guidelines for a test system in practice to produce the data to present to the regulators. And if you did invent a protical and somehow get something approved, you may end up repeatedly retesting as the guidelines evolve over time in order to maintain your approval - very expensive.

It would also involve very long studies, ie, treating frames, overwintering, then exposing bees to the treated frames. Then the regulators may decide they want a residue accumulation study over 3 applications, then you are talking years.

So for any manufacture producing a wax-moth pesticide its just not worth the expense and delays it would cause. Especially when you consider the quantities bee keepers will use compared to other farmers.

So in short "You do need a licensed product to kill wax moth larvae in stored frames"

However that being said, I dont know of a single case of a bee keeper being put in prion for misappropriate use of pesticides!

And sorry for the rant, it is not my intention to belittle you. My work is related to this kind of stuff, so unlike bee keeping is a topic I actually have some knowledge on.

Hi Bobba. Have you used Xen Tari - if what results, please? Thanks.

 

[bobba]

Hi Bobba. Have you used Xen Tari - if what results, please? Thanks.

No. I have not been keeping bees long and have only overwintered supers once as described.

But am confident it will work much the same as dipel. Its basically the same, just uses a different variant of Bacillus.

I actually ordered some last year for £11, but it did not arrive. I went to buy some more and the price had shot up to £35-40 per box! So was very grateful paragyle could spare me a few g of dipel. It seems to be about £15-20 now witch is not too bad.

 

[victor meldrew]

I store mine dry in my honey house a double sheet of newspaper between each super !
Small wax moth doesn’t usually attack supers . Large wax moth is most unusual where I live .

 

[oliver90owner]

When I had twenty to thirty hives, I removed all frame spacers, packed as many frames in each shallow as possible, made stacks up to about 1.5m high, with a deep on top. These stacks were treated with sulphur strips in an old tin can burner in the deep. Boxes were pulled tightly together with ratchet straps to ensure no small gaps. Stored outside. Apart from nail head corrosion it worked well.

I tried black bin plastic bags in my first year and learned not to do it that way again!

 

[Garry R]

I take the frames out of the supers and wrap 2 frames in a sheet of newspaper and stoe in an old freezer. Leaves the super boxes free for flaming or sterilisation. In an old freezer freeze if its working - kills wax moth. I also pop a small amount of 18% acetic acid in a silicone loaf mould in the freezer to knock back nosema and I think that wax moth would be uncomfortable. In the spring the frames put into the supers and are ventilated in the supers before popping onto the brood boxes when ready for the spring flow. Plenty of old freezers available on recycle sites and one big plus --- moth proof!!! And mouse proof

 

[Rock_Chick]

I’ve stored mine both wet and dry outside on a hive stand, CB top and bottom not found any problems, apart from this year, there was a lot of pollen in some of the supers, and all went mouldy over winter

 

[Erichalfbee]

I find pollen mites take care of the pollen which then tips out in the spring

 

[Monbees]

Stored over a hundred deep frames over the last winter - the majority of it had had brood in, they were from demarrees so had also had stores in so were all stored wet - no waxmoth in any of them. I had a few shallow frames which were brood stained as well, sroed with the other wet frames, they all survived.

I used to treat with Certan (B401) but this was withdrawn by the VMD. The replacement B402 is licensed in the USA but not in UK. License not expected until 2022. Typical of VMD to withdraw a perfectly satisfactory product without licensing a replacement. Where can you buy Di Pel in small quantities - 500g seems to be the smallest available? I will probably store wet this year with frames wrapped in small numbers.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but am wanting to spray with dipel/ certan against wax moth this year. I cannot find whether the B402 has been licensed yet, if so, where to buy it?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but am wanting to spray with dipel/ certan against wax moth this year. I cannot find whether the B402 has been licensed yet, if so, where to buy it?

Across the channel. No licence here in U.K. I’m almost positive.

 

[Nannysbees]

Have bought a small chest freezer for this years storage, had some wax moth damage in the supers last year although we thought we stored them air tight, little blighters were probably already in there!!! As the frames are freezing we are doing a little maintenance and cleaning of the supers ready for the frames to go in and then be sealed so fingers crossed

 

[Swarm]

Have bought a small chest freezer for this years storage, had some wax moth damage in the supers last year although we thought we stored them air tight, little blighters were probably already in there!!! As the frames are freezing we are doing a little maintenance and cleaning of the supers ready for the frames to go in and then be sealed so fingers crossed

You will be surprised how some colonies seem to tolerate wax moth.

 

[The Poot]

Have bought a small chest freezer for this years storage, had some wax moth damage in the supers last year although we thought we stored them air tight, little blighters were probably already in there!!! As the frames are freezing we are doing a little maintenance and cleaning of the supers ready for the frames to go in and then be sealed so fingers crossed

I found some damage in some of my supers, but only the ones taken from brood and a half hives that I had progressed to double brood. (Another reason for not working brood and a half). I had no damage in any wet supers that had been purely honey storage. Were yours from brood and a half hives?

 

[Susan1]

I store dry tightly wrapped in cling film. Kept in my lovely bee shed. Has worked so far.

 

[Sutty]

If you store wet supers with acetic acid, does the residual honey absorb acetic acid, and if so are the bees still happy with it come spring?

 

[Nannysbees]

I found some damage in some of my supers, but only the ones taken from brood and a half hives that I had progressed to double brood. (Another reason for not working brood and a half). I had no damage in any wet supers that had been purely honey storage. Were yours from brood and a half hives?

Kept the brood and a half on through winter as most of the honey was in the half. Going to give double brood a whirl next year in the hope of heading off swarming. In the lap of the gods I know but worth a try