Storing supers for winter

[Nannysbees]

What do you lot do about wax moth?

After extracting last year I left my supers in the consevetory for about a week. When I went to move them to the shed for long term storage, I found some were already under attack from wax moth.

So I killed the grubs I could see and sprayed with dipel df. Luckily they were OK in the spring.

Never heard of dipel, what is it? Is it organic?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Never heard of dipel, what is it? Is it organic?

nematodes basically

 

[Jimmy]

Never heard of dipel, what is it? Is it organic?

It's a strain of Bacillus thuringiensis, this bacteria produces a toxin (Bt toxin) that harms cabbage white caterpillars on Brassicas. Fortunately it's also effective against wax moth.

 

[Swarm]

Mine were wet, and the larvae were happily chomping away on them.

I was a bit unsure about spraying wet supers with dipel, but it seemed to work. I was worried the extra moisture would ferment the honey. Some of my supers sure did stink in the spring!

In the spring I could also see where more had hatched and quickly died. Of cause, I cannot tell for sure if the dipel killed them or if they would have died anyway.

But after last years experience, I will sleep better if I have given them a spray.

Storing wet is supposed to deter wax moth, it doesn't, so make sure the supers are well sealed with any little gaps between boxes gaffer taped, as Madasafish advised. I had no problem with wax moth until a few years ago so they are all treated before storage now, comb is too precious.

 

[tonyofarr]

We store them wet like lindsay s, and we label them with hive no, apiary and condition written on the duct tape with a sharpie so that we don't swap supers between hives; it lessens the chance of spreading disease between hives and apiaries.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Storing wet is supposed to deter wax moth, it doesn't,

More than once I've ended up with a stack of 'dry' supers amongst the wet. When I open up the next seasonn there is invariably evidence of waxmoth in the dry. The wet stacks being untouched.

 

[Erichalfbee]

More than once I've ended up with a stack of 'dry' supers amongst the wet. When I open up the next seasonn there is invariably evidence of waxmoth in the dry. The wet stacks being untouched.

I have never had waxmoth in my supers in 10years. My neighbour quarter of a mile away had the lot( stored dry) destroyed over this winter

 

[bobba]

Never heard of dipel, what is it? Is it organic?

https://www.theapiarist.org/tag/dipel/

 

[bobba]

Last year, the first super on each hive went below the QE. Some of the frames from these supers were brood stained.

It was the boxes with brood stained frames that came under attack.

The ones from above the QE were all fine.

Luckily I put a sheet of board between each super so they did not spread throughout the stack.

I do not have enough freezer space to put frames in, but luckily I got enough dry ice from work to treat the worse 2 supers.

But I still had to check the other supers daily, killing any grubs with a cocktail stick.

Luckily pargyle kindly posted me some dipel so I could treat them before overwinter storage.

I separated out all the brood stained frames and put them in separate boxes.

In the spring it was in the brood stained boxes I could see where more larvae had hatched and promptly died. So I am sure I would have lost some frames without treatment.

So I would advise to always take extra care with any brood stained frames you have.

 

[Swarm]

..

 

[Erichalfbee]

Last year, the first super on each hive went below the QE. Some of the frames from these supers were brood stained.

It was the boxes with brood stained frames that came under attack.

The ones from above the QE were all fine.

Luckily I put a sheet of board between each super so they did not spread throughout the stack.

I do not have enough freezer space to put frames in, but luckily I got enough dry ice from work to treat the worse 2 supers.

But I still had to check the other supers daily, killing any grubs with a cocktail stick.

Luckily pargyle kindly posted me some dipel so I could treat them before overwinter storage.

I separated out all the brood stained frames and put them in separate boxes.

In the spring it was in the brood stained boxes I could see where more larvae had hatched and promptly died. So I am sure I would have lost some frames without treatment.

So I would advise to always take extra care with any brood stained frames you have.

I must admit Ive been lucky to escape even frames with brood but if I ever did get waxmoth in them I would be spraying but I would still store them wet.
We live and learn luck or not.
I’ve given my neighbours some dipel so hopefully their frames will be ok this year

 

[holmbee]

I used to treat with Certan (B401) but this was withdrawn by the VMD. The replacement B402 is licensed in the USA but not in UK. License not expected until 2022. Typical of VMD to withdraw a perfectly satisfactory product without licensing a replacement. Where can you buy Di Pel in small quantities - 500g seems to be the smallest available? I will probably store wet this year with frames wrapped in small numbers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

[QUOTE="holmbee, post: 783754, Where can you buy Di Pel in small quantities - 500g seems to be the smallest available? I will probably store wet this year with frames wrapped in small numbers.

You can’t but you can use it on your brassicas as well as your frames

 

[bobba]

I used to treat with Certan (B401) but this was withdrawn by the VMD. The replacement B402 is licensed in the USA but not in UK. License not expected until 2022. Typical of VMD to withdraw a perfectly satisfactory product without licensing a replacement. Where can you buy Di Pel in small quantities - 500g seems to be the smallest available? I will probably store wet this year with frames wrapped in small numbers.

You can also use XenTari

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384299220365?hash=item597a04bd8d:g:YukAAOSwA1lhATWG
There seem to be some sellers splitting boxes into smaller amounts too.

I must admit Ive been lucky to escape even frames with brood but if I ever did get waxmoth in them I would be spraying but I would still store them wet.
We live and learn luck or not.
I’ve given my neighbours some dipel so hopefully their frames will be ok this year

I am going to keep storing wet too, saves faff.

Any brood stained frames will get a real good spray. For any clean boxes with no stains, I will tip them up on their side, and spray in from the top and bottom quickly without removing all the frames.

And will be treating straight after extraction.

Part of the problem may have been that my supers were stored in my consevetory, and it was very hot in there. Maybe in a cooler place the honey left on the frames would have been more viscus and possible hampered the larvae more. So I will also be avoiding storing in my consevetory post extraction from now on.

The boxes I treated with dry ice, just had some pellets tipped in between the frames, It was never enough to freeze them outright, but filed the boxes with a cold mist. And that seemed to kill any that had hatched. Maybe it was enough to thicken the honey.

It may just have been combination bad luck and bad storage conditions, but I still have some dipel left from last year, so I may had well use it.

 

[elainemary]

I've started to store mine dry after giving back to the bees to clean out over the crown board after extraction. I store on a plastic tray in the shed then just top with a crown board. Must start putting newspaper between, as a precaution, as others have said, though they don't have any brood in. In 5th season of beekeeping and never seen a wax moth, but guessing as in the Pennines and at 1100ft at home, it's too cold for them!?

 

[Swarm]

If you have dipel left, give them a spray, my friend lost two supers this year. Stored wet same as he has always done.
If they've had brood in them, definitely treat them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I must admit Ive been lucky to escape even frames with brood but if I ever did get waxmoth in them I would be spraying but I would still store them wet.

Stored over a hundred deep frames over the last winter - the majority of it had had brood in, they were from demarrees so had also had stores in so were all stored wet - no waxmoth in any of them. I had a few shallow frames which were brood stained as well, sroed with the other wet frames, they all survived.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Horses for courses I guess. I’m lazy and find it the easiest way to just stack the supers up after extracting, having none of the faff if returning all the supers to the bees for cleaning.
I’ve just talked to Richard Noel and he stores his dry under cover but outside with queen excluders ( no roof) on top.

 

[gmonag]

I used to treat with Certan (B401) but this was withdrawn by the VMD. The replacement B402 is licensed in the USA but not in UK. License not expected until 2022. Typical of VMD to withdraw a perfectly satisfactory product without licensing a replacement. Where can you buy Di Pel in small quantities - 500g seems to be the smallest available? I will probably store wet this year with frames wrapped in small numbers.

You don't need a licenced product to kill wax moth larvae in stored frames - only if used in the hive (which you don't do)

 

[bobba]

You don't need a licenced product to kill wax moth larvae in stored frames - only if used in the hive (which you don't do)

I dont think holmbee is concerned if it needs approval to use it. But since it is no longer approved it is hard to obtain.

And regarding approval, if you want to get technical...

Pesticides can only be used for approved purposes. Unless it has been specifically approved for a given purpose and states so in the supporting literature, then technically it is not legal to use it in that way.

There are currently no products I know of that are approved for use on bee frames outside the hive.

To my understanding there is a complication regarding jurisdiction. I may or may not have been told the regulators cannot decide if it should be classed as a wood treatment, wax treatment, or bee/hive treatment. Basically there is not a nice place for it in their current classification and regulatory structure.

To my knowledge there are no established guidelines for a test system in practice to produce the data to present to the regulators. And if you did invent a protical and somehow get something approved, you may end up repeatedly retesting as the guidelines evolve over time in order to maintain your approval - very expensive.

It would also involve very long studies, ie, treating frames, overwintering, then exposing bees to the treated frames. Then the regulators may decide they want a residue accumulation study over 3 applications, then you are talking years.

So for any manufacture producing a wax-moth pesticide its just not worth the expense and delays it would cause. Especially when you consider the quantities bee keepers will use compared to other farmers.

So in short "You do need a licensed product to kill wax moth larvae in stored frames"

However that being said, I dont know of a single case of a bee keeper being put in prion for misappropriate use of pesticides!

And sorry for the rant, it is not my intention to belittle you. My work is related to this kind of stuff, so unlike bee keeping is a topic I actually have some knowledge on.