Stopping a cast swarm

[MandF]

Apologies if this has been asked before.

My situation is this;

On one of my hives I noticed queen cups with eggs on inspection on 18th May. I squished the eggs and added some more space for them, in case this might remove the urge.

1 week later I checked them again, and this time found charged QCs, on the verge of being capped. I immediately did an A/S with snelgrove - put frame with queen + foundation in bottom box, rest of brood above snelgrove, side entrance. Destroyed all but 2 QCs.

Next day prime swarm emerged anyway, up into a leylandii out of reach. Should have used an excluder to hold her in for a couple of days. So put brood (with 2 qcs) back on bottom, remove the snelgrove.

The next day (monday 27th) the swarm came back down to behind my hives, so luckily I got them and have them in a separate brood box. Idea at this stage was to let the original hive raise new queen, and once ok kill old queen and reunite the "swarm".

According to my calcs the new queen would have emerged by saturday, and mate later this week. Plan was to leave it and check in a bit after.

That was the plan. I noticed a fair bit of activity brewing with the hives earlier this eve, went down and saw the activity was this hive. Suspecting a cast swarm about to emerge I decided to check through it, sure enough found another 5-6 QCs. As the bees were still around I decided the new queen hadnt left yet, so destroyed all the QCs, and put an excluder underneath the brood box. Reassembled the hive and the bees slowly returned, no fanning.

So, the new plan is to leave the QX on for 2 days, and remove it - assuming she cant get through it, and isnt killed when being forced through it, the idea is that 2 days is long enough for them to realise they have no QCs left, so wont want to swarm any more, plus the 2 days takes us to the calculated first day of her mating flights. I still have the original queen to put back in if necessary.

Does the revised plan sound ok? I have read about 'pulling' queens and leaving them to it, but in this case it looked like they were about to swarm anyway, so figured this was the only way to stop them, without finding the new queen. I guess there could be 2 virgins in there anyway, but apart from that I mean?

Thanks

 

[drstitson]

you originally left 2 QCs. have they both emerged? if so you have two virgins, one of which will want to set off as a cast.

 

[MandF]

I'm pretty sure the other one was still in the cell. I only saw 1 open QC, one (this one I think) had a virgin in there which I could have pulled. The rest were pretty much all larval still, which would make sense with the dates.

If I did miss one, in theory, could/might they not fight it out as they will have been locked in for 2 days? Im also now wondering if the forced confinement and proximity, if it doesnt lead to a fight, might lead to them coexisting in the hive?

But, assuming just 1 emerged, keeping her in for 2 days should be long enough to quell the swarm instinct, plus not cause any undue issues with mating?

 

[beeno]

Hi MandF,
If you have more than one QC they will be aware of each other. The question is by confining them will they fight it out? If you ask me, listening to beeks' experiences there does not seem to be a lot of fighting, more fly to the hills. When it is my turn I will definitely only leave one QC. Lots of luck. Someone with practical experience in this matter will come along in a minute!

 

[TOBY-3652]

Hi MandF,
If you have more than one QC they will be aware of each other. The question is by confining them will they fight it out? If you ask me, listening to beeks' experiences there does not seem to be a lot of fighting, more fly to the hills. When it is my turn I will definitely only leave one QC. Lots of luck. Someone with practical experience in this matter will come along in a minute

i ONLY EVER LEAVE ONE QUEEN CELL WHEN DOING A AS. BUT I NEARLY ALLWAYS TAKE A NUC WITH A QUEEN CELL, FOR INSURANCE

 

[richardbees]

I left two QC after an AS and switched the box to the other side after 8 days (knowing roughly the age of the cells) so thought I'd left sod all flying bees to swarm - but they still did!

 

[galileo]

I leave one capped and one open+charged that's a few days behind. If there's a spare coming close to closure, I take that into a nuc box. If the capped cell emerges, the slower cell gets removed. If it doesn't, the one that I've seen to be occupied takes over. All others are removed on that day, and again 4 days later.

If and when the cell in the nuc box emerges, I then have two chances of getting a mated and laying queen.

As of today, I'm in exactly that position: two emerged queens this morning (both seen, one pulled) and no more QCs in the hive. The old queen is busy laying downstairs beneath a Horsley board, just in case, with her entourage still filling up a couple of supers. In the event of two failures, I'll simply reunite but hopefully, it'll be running as a 2 queen hive for the rest of the season.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[MandF]

I left two QC after an AS and switched the box to the other side after 8 days (knowing roughly the age of the cells) so thought I'd left sod all flying bees to swarm - but they still did!

It seems to be the way this season?

I thought it was that there was a risk of a cast by leaving 2 qcs, but it seems this season/weather they are almost all choosing to cast.

I'm definitely leaving only 1 qc next time!