Split or artificial swarm? When to do this. HELP!
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Poly Hive
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Dani?
Do you mean by thinning out cells (or what ever the phrase was) that you are knocking cells out and if so which ones and what is your selection criteria?
Thining the ends of Q cells was done with a scalpel BTW.
PH
Do you mean by thinning out cells (or what ever the phrase was) that you are knocking cells out and if so which ones and what is your selection criteria?
Thining the ends of Q cells was done with a scalpel BTW.
PH
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Removing some cells. Ie reducing the number.
As for selection criteria..... just picking the best looking cell. And before anybody says, yes not very scientific.
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Interesting Dani.
Just a thought tho, if the bees choose the best larva to produce a queen with it would seem that by grafting we are reducing the pool of potential genes available to them. It seems we are better making them queenless and allowing them to choose THEN using the generated queen cells.
Just as I was getting my grafting kit sorted!
That might well be the conclusion to draw. I don’t know about the idea that you should remove queen cells built on older larvae if you do let the bees replace their queen this way.
The bees make what we call emergency cells, hardly an emergency for the colony if they have a good selection of eggs and young larvae. I don't touch the cells ( I knew you meant thinning the number and not the cell walls) as I believe the bees know better than me, the number of cells is just their insurance. Each time, I've been left with a new queen and those other cells are gone.
I did emphasise that I carry this out before any sign of swarm prep, once they show signs, it's too late and then the same manoeuvre would require breaking down cells.
I did emphasise that I carry this out before any sign of swarm prep, once they show signs, it's too late and then the same manoeuvre would require breaking down cells.
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How do you know when to split? You mentioned in an earlier post about monitoring the number of drones. How many drones would indicate the need to split? I assume it’s a balancing act, between splitting to early and leaving it too late. Does premature splitting damage the original colony? I know that swarming is linked to available space, colony size etc. I am just about to enter my second year of bee keeping so haven’t yet experienced the highs and lows of swarm control!
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I Demaree when the box is stuffed with bees and there are lots of drones; BEFORE swarm cells appear
It can be a bit of a balancing act, it depends on the season. If your hive is looking full and you see plentiful drone population and then you just happen to see the queen, perfect time. Also perfect time for a Demaree but I think you would find a split easier.
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Thanks for the advice. I have a nuc ready and waiting. The foundation isn’t drawn. Will this be a problem?
When you remove the queen and make up the nuc, you transfer the comb she is on and another one or two combs of brood plus stores and the bees on them of course. Make up the deficit in both (hive and nuc) with foundation.
Don't take too many brood frames, two should be ample, your queen is laying and will soon fill the nuc with bees. If there is some empty(ish) comb, give it to the nuc, remember you will be waiting a few weeks before your new queen starts laying. In the meantime, your old queen is steadily providing brood that you can give to the hive. Depending on timing and season, it's quite possible to take a crop from both. In 2018 I did a Demarree with a Native Welsh colony that was becoming very tall and she needed even more laying space so I decided to split them instead. I took seven supers, from old queen, two from new.
You have the choice at the end of season whether to combine or take both into winter.
They could well be on double brood by the time you do the split, with new combs drawn, etc.
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Beagle23
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If it's your first year I would stay on single brood as it makes inspection so much easier.
You'll notice when the drone population hits peak and it probably won't be until around May, so don't panic, you have plenty of time.
When we're into the spring you can start your weekly inspections, once you start to see Queen Cells you'll know that it's time to act.
There's no definitive way to carry out a split, over time you'll find a method that you're most comfortable with. If your main objective is to increase the number of colonies, then transfer an unhatched queen to your nuc, with a bunch of stores and some bees and you should be away. Unless the new queen dies on her mating flight, or starves from want of food, you should be away.
Stopping a swarm is a different trick and again there are a number of ways to do it. But some years they're just going to go no matter what you do.
So last year I created 6 splits from my two hives, tore down the remaining queen cells and neither colony swarmed. No doubt if I followed the same procedure this year they'd both swarm
On the subject of foundation - you want to transfer a couple of frames from your main hive to the NUC when you do the split. Replace the frames you've taken with two new ones and the bees will soon draw it out.
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If it's your first year I would stay on single brood as it makes inspection so much easier.
You'll notice when the drone population hits peak and it probably won't be until around May, so don't panic, you have plenty of time.
When we're into the spring you can start your weekly inspections, once you start to see Queen Cells you'll know that it's time to act.
There's no definitive way to carry out a split, over time you'll find a method that you're most comfortable with. If your main objective is to increase the number of colonies, then transfer an unhatched queen to your nuc, with a bunch of stores and some bees and you should be away. Unless the new queen dies on her mating flight, or starves from want of food, you should be away.
Stopping a swarm is a different trick and again there are a number of ways to do it. But some years they're just going to go no matter what you do.
So last year I created 6 splits from my two hives, tore down the remaining queen cells and neither colony swarmed. No doubt if I followed the same procedure this year they'd both swarm
On the subject of foundation - you want to transfer a couple of frames from your main hive to the NUC when you do the split. Replace the frames you've taken with two new ones and the bees will soon draw it out.
At this point you've missed the boat and have to perform some measure of swarm prevention and splitting them now does not necessarily stop swarm mode, sometimes just delays it.
A preemptive split, before swarm preparation avoids all that and the colony is supplied by the old queen so they maintain a good foraging force.
