Snelgrove II Question

[Beedogg]

I've been reading Wally Shaw's guide to the Snelbrove II manipulations in response to finding QCs in the colony. The basics I think I grasp.

1. Upon finding evidence of SQCs, move most of the brood plus the Queen to a new BB adjacent to the target hive (he calls this part the Parent Colony).
2. Leave 2 frames of BIAS (but without bees) in the old BB at the old site. No QCs. He calls this the Artificial Swarm.
3. The flying bees will leave the Parent colony and return to the 2 frames in the Artificial Swarm, thus depriving the Parent Colony of foragers.
4. Since the flying bees have left the Parent Colony the bees there will lose any urge to swarm and the Queen will carry on laying up the frames there.
5. Upon return to the 2 frames in the Artificial Swarm the flying bees think that they have swarmed and lose any urge to swarm, but set about making EQCs there since the Artificial Swarm is Q-.
6. 2nd manipulation 9-10 days later; take the Queen from the Parent Colony and pop her back into the Artificial Swarm to make it Q+, where the bees will then destroy the EQCs that they had made. She will then settle back in to laying up the frames there.
7. Leave the old Parent Colony (now Q-) to raise their own EQC if an increase is required, or unite it with another colony if not.

I hope I've got that right.
But I have a couple of questions.

1. Is is critical that only 2 frames of BIAS are left in the Artificial Swarm? What if one left 3 or 4 frames there? Why is 2 so important?
2. Is it critical that so many frames of BIAS are moved with the Queen in the Parent Colony. What if one left her with only 5 frames?

Where I'm going with this is that I don't have a spare hive to use for this. But I do have a couple of 5-frame nucs. Would the procedure work using nucs for the Parent Colony part? To do so would necessitate leaving more than 2 frames in the Artifical Swarm and moving less than, say, 6 or 7 to the Parent Colony. Does that invalidate the whole thing?

Any advice or correction gratefully received.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I tried this following wally’s instructions to the letter. I even emailed him to clarify that the colony wouldn’t swarm on EQCs. The AS killed the queen when I repatriated her and the other colony swarmed.
Just nuc the queen. Much easier and foolproof.

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks Dani. Just so I'm clear what 'just nuc the queen' means...

Take the Queen and some frames of BIAS (up to 5) and put them in a nuc. She won't swarm because she's lost the flying bees, right? The donor box will now presumably make EQCs which can be destroyed so that after 5 days or so they run out of material for making new queens.
Can the two then just be re-combined into one? Or is that just restoring the status quo and making swarming more likely?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I frame food, The frame the queen is on , a frame of emerging brood, two empty frames. I like to put one drawn in but you probably have only foundation so that will do. Make sure there are no queen cells. Shake in a couple of frames of bees, but be careful don't shake the frame with the queen cell you want to keep.You can use uncapped brood which will have lots of nurse bees but I often just empty a supers worth in. Move away. The queen will keep laying and the bees will draw out the frames. This colony will have no foragers for a while as they will return to their old hive so keep an eye on the stores.
Back at the old hive select ONE open QC with a fat larva and plenty of royal jelly.(You need to really look that you don't miss any. There's no need for two as your insurance is the queen in her nuc. Mark the frame. Destroy all the others. Go back in a week and remove any more the bees will make. Leave alone for 4 weeks
Keep an eye on your nuc. They may need to be moved into a full size box pretty soon so order another hive.
Good luck
You can re-combine after the new queen has started laying and to quote Finman, "swarming fever has gone"

 

[Swift Nick]

I tried this following wally’s instructions to the letter. I even emailed him to clarify that the colony wouldn’t swarm on EQCs. The AS killed the queen when I repatriated her and the other colony swarmed.
Just nuc the queen. Much easier and foolproof.

I had exactly the same experience as this last year. It’s queen to nuc also for me now.