Small capped QCs - what does that signify?

[Terry G]

The back-story is this: New queen post-swarm, not yet laying, bees filling up the brood box with nectar despite 2 supers of foundation.
So moving on to today: no sign of queen but one frame-worth of capped brood and larvae. Forgot to wear glasses so didn't see eggs. Also about 10 queen cells, dammit, mostly charged, some capped, suggesting our new queen may already have buggered off. BUT the capped QCs were really small. Definitely queen cells but about half the size of any we have seen before. Small peanuts rather than hefty old droopers. What, dear friends of the forum, does this mean? If anything.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are they buried in the comb?

 

[enrico]

Many of us are thinking 'drones' but I wouldn't be so rude as to suggest it!

 

[Terry G]

Many of us are thinking 'drones' but I wouldn't be so rude as to suggest it!

Suggest away! No, I've seen plenty of drone cells, especially this season. These have the familiar crinkly texture of queen cells and are pointing down - they just appear stunted.

 

[Tom Bick]

If they were random across the comb then to me emergency queen cells.

 

[Hachi]

Have you pictures?

 

[beeno]

QUOTE=Tom Bick;424923]If they were random across the comb then to me emergency queen cells.[/QUOTE]

 

[itma]

10 QCs seems a lot of emergency cells in a colony recently depleted by swarming. My guess from what info is provided would be that they have swarmed again.

The scenario would be as follows: there was little laying space (and a lot of honey) in the brood box when they swarmed the first time.
While there was no brood being laid (until new Q emerged, mated, and got going) they will have backfilled the brood nest with nectar as the brood emerged.
When new Q was ready for lots of laying space, there was precious little.
So they swarmed again.
With little choice of where to build the swarm QCs, they have been built more like emergency cells.



"Space" means area of drawn empty comb.
Not volume.
Adding a second super when they haven't started drawing the first won't have helped.

My suggestions would include extracting some of the frames in the brood box (to give more Q-usable 'space' and putting a super under the brood for a week or two to get bee-used (if not started drawing) so that it will be more attractive when you move it above. Always supposing that my inferences match the reality of what is in this hive!

 

[Terry G]

10 QCs seems a lot of emergency cells in a colony recently depleted by swarming. My guess from what info is provided would be that they have swarmed again.


That is certainly what I was thinking. At least we took 32lbs of honey off them yesterday!
My other colony is growing at an alarming rate so I think I'll take a frame of young brood out of that one and give it to the presumed Q- colony, and also replace at least one of the nectar-filled frames with...what? Drawn comb or foundation?
Thanks for your definition of space - I obviously hadn't thought that one through properly.
Swarmy sods these Carniolans aren't they? The trade-off is that we have happy neighbours and sting-free grandchildren.
Oh, and 67lbs of honey so far.

 

[Tom Bick]

Terry were you inspecting the hive whilst waiting for the new queen to come into lay and would you say the hive has diminished in bees between inspections. Also what is their mood like happy relaxed going about their business or slightly more grumpy and rushing around on the comb.

 

[Terry G]

Terry were you inspecting the hive whilst waiting for the new queen to come into lay and would you say the hive has diminished in bees between inspections. Also what is their mood like happy relaxed going about their business or slightly more grumpy and rushing around on the comb.

In answer to the first question Tom, yes (and I know what you are going to say!) But in mitigation we were just checking the hive the previous weekend to see what was going on as we thought we had heard a queen piping two weeks before and wanted to check that we weren't mistaken - and there she was. We also saw that the bees were filling the brood cells with honey so we removed one frame and put in a frame of drawn comb. So that intervention presumably caused her to slope off. And yes, I think there are fewer bees. But if we hadn't gone in we wouldn't have known about the lack of laying space and I guess she would have swarmed anyway.
In answer to your second, the bees are their usual chilled out selves - presumably because they think they have everything in hand with the emergency cells.
Do you think I should go ahead with the test frame, as planned?

 

[Tom Bick]

Perhaps swarming or emergency it makes no great adds as the situation you have now is not going to change. The hive is in a bad state, how may weeks from the last egg (not including the few the new queen managed before she disappeared ) and how long before a new queen in the hive and any emerging bees from her. A test frame would only be of any good if you perhaps remove all the emergency queen cells and then will only delay any chance the bees have if you want nature to take its course. Your options to me is get a mated queen sap or combine and stand back and see what happens if left to their own devices.

 

[Terry G]

Perhaps swarming or emergency it makes no great adds as the situation you have now is not going to change. The hive is in a bad state, how may weeks from the last egg (not including the few the new queen managed before she disappeared ) and how long before a new queen in the hive and any emerging bees from her. A test frame would only be of any good if you perhaps remove all the emergency queen cells and then will only delay any chance the bees have if you want nature to take its course. Your options to me is get a mated queen sap or combine and stand back and see what happens if left to their own devices.

A painful inditement, but undoubtedly true. I must confess it has been something of a challenge keeping up with the rapid expansion and incessant swarming of the last few months. And it's all such a new experience.
Knife-edge excitement though!

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes Terry the highs are great the lows are frustrating but you learn so much from them.

 

[oliver90owner]

Some sense, at last, now onto page two.

Yes, make yourself a time line.

In answer to your OP, small, stunted queen cells likely means small stunted queens on emergence, so likely around the cycle again, before season-end.

Little point in raising more queen cells from another test frame - test frames are just that, for testing for Q- - as they may well finish as stunted as the present crop.

There is time (if the colony is strong enough, or were reinforced with emerging brood at some suitable point) to get the colony strong enough for winter, but maybe not strong enough before wasps become a nuisance.

A laying queen would clearly be the better choice if perseverance is your priority. Otherwise just cut your losses and unite. Simple, really, if you draw that simple time line, to decide for yourself.