Slightly Mental Bees

[Ceph]

Need to pick some brains on the way this hive is going and see what peoples thoughts are the way I should go with it;

The bees were collected on wild comb in a trellis of honeysuckle last August (2010) and have lived in a national that was a mess (to me, not them) of wild comb that couldnt be inspected properly.

They welded four/five frames together meaning you didnt have a clue what was going on. I saw the queen for the first time on the weekend of the 2nd April!

They havnt drawn much from the surrounding frames in the national, Ive just got it filled with brood foundation.

I found 2 queen cells this saturday and decided I had to remove most wild comb that I couldnt see in, they have honey stores and some brood and hopefully will now bring on the foundation into proper frames.

Well I wished until I checked yesterday and they are building wild comb layered off the foundation again, plus drawing out faces of near frames and I found another queen cell.

Ive removed the queen cells.

Question is...they havnt filled the brood box yet so why do they feel the need to swarm? Is it because they have an abundance of food? Even more so since I removed the wild comb in the brood area.

Or is it something else?

I would like to build up their numbers as they are a very nice bee, very dark, some almost black except for the bits of yellow.

Plus I saw one trying to bite off a mite from another yesterday, which I thought was very good news.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Could you shake them all into another box filled with foundation and feed?

 

[Skyhook]

2 questions- 1) Can we assume that the frames are pushed together at the correct spacing, and that any empty space is dummied off and filled? 2) If so, why do you want to increase from them? they may be the colour you want, but they sound like a pain in the a***e!

 

[Ceph]

If I shake them into a box then there wont be much different than what they have at present.

The frames are all pushed up together as they should, althoughrather than filling up the rest of the hive (im not sure what you mean) the brood box is full of frames with foundation other than the frames they are living on which is say 5 in total.

Were I took the wild comb out I popped some with honey on it in an eke above the crown board for them to take down. But it just occiurred to me Ive left some fondant up there as well, which I assume should come out now. (hmm that could be my problem could it not?)

 

[Midland Beek]

They welded four/five frames together meaning you didnt have a clue what was going on. I saw the queen for the first time on the weekend of the 2nd April!

All bees will join the frames together with brace comb. You will typically get brace comb in about every beehive on the planet.

If you have foundation in the hive at this point of the season ther is a case for inserting a frame of it between two drawn frames. But do not separate two frames of brood in this way.

Are you sure you know the difference between a queen cell cup and a queen cell? All colonies contain queen cell cups and they mean nothing.

 

[Moggs]

Hi ceph

Any chance of a picture? Might help to see what's going on. Where did you get the honey that you put on?

 

[Ceph]

Yeah no probs Ill try an put some pics up in a short while, although they are not the most current as I didnt have chance ot take pics this weekend.

The honey comes from the wild comb they produced. I just put it up there for them to remove rather than in the brood box as no doubt they would just start building round it again.

cheers

 

[Ceph]

These pics are from last week prior to me removing the wild comb this weekend, which I have no pics of.

 

[Moggs]

Ceph

What's the spacing of your castellated spacer bar? The bees are drawing foundation to the space available. Have you got a castellated spacer designed for a super? Is this the extent of the problem, or have I missed something here?

 

[victor meldrew]

Ceph

What's the spacing of your castellated spacer bar? The bees are drawing foundation to the space available. Have you got a castellated spacer designed for a super?

They look a little wide granted but the gap between the Hoffman frames isn't too great considering 12 can be squeezed into a standard brood box !

JW

 

[Ceph]

No sure of spacing to be honest, I didnt realise the castellated spacings are different from the supers to the brood box, In my large hive I have castellated no problem in both brood and supers.

Saying that I bought the hives from two different places and the ***** who sold me the second I use for the wild (apparentley assembled) had the frames all just pushed together without any nails and had put the foundation in without nails upside down and damaged a load.

Shall I measure the frames spacings tomorrow?

 

[oliver90owner]

John 'Hawk-eye' Wilkinson,

I thought you may have spotted the top bee space with a bottom bee space box. Bet the crownboard, if one is fitted, is bottom bee space.

Frame spacing appears to be eleven, after a rough measure on the screen.

Regards, RAB

 

[Moggs]

Ceph

I'm losing sight of the original problem here, I think! What are you concerned with? If the frames are correctly spaced (11 in a National BB) the bees will sort out the spacing between the comb faces. You will probably know that they work to a standard 'bee space' (the distance between two frames that allows two bees to work 'back to back'). If you have 11 frames in there, leave them to sort it all out, would be my advice!

 

[freethorpe bees]

Are my eyes deceiving me or are there only eight frames in the bb?

 

[oliver90owner]

FB,

Are my eyes deceiving me

Yes def. Not all the frames are in the box but it looks like at least ten, probably eleven.
Even ten would not be a disaster as that sort of spacing is/can be used at times. An absolute minimum would be nine from the pics but I reckon there are another couple slots out of shot. If the frames ar like the first pic, they will never sort them out in a month of Sundays.

Regards, RAB

 

[Ceph]

Right sorry for the confusion.

Definetley 11 frames go in the brood box (was having a daft moment earlier) and just found some pics from 23rd March 2011 which Ive attached.

There was space from missing frames in the pics as I took out the foundation frames out to make it easier for pics.

Thing I am wondering is why are they making queen cells when they havnt even got 2 thirds of the BB filled?

Am I over feeding them? Especially since I left on fondant from the winter. I wouldnt of thought so.

But they have just lost a load of their brood from my removal of wild comb.

With regards to their insistence on making wild comb rather than sheets on foundation I suppose will just have to keep breaking out and encouraging them to draw out foundation, as they have some. What do you think?

 

[freethorpe bees]

The frames look too far apart. The self spacing bits are not touching ( obviously because of the castellations) so I reckon, in my humblest of opinions, that is what the problem is.

 

[oliver90owner]

freethorpe bees,

British Standard Nationals were designed to take eleven frames. Hive internal dimensions have not changed since the 1920s.

Hoffman frame spacings can mean one can squeeze in 12 frames instead of the standard eleven.

Regards, RAB

 

[victor meldrew]

The frames look too far apart. The self spacing bits are not touching ( obviously because of the castellations) so I reckon, in my humblest of opinions, that is what the problem is.

Look again especially at the frames with narrow spacers, not too wide spaced really .
Bees have been kept for donkeys' years on such spacings , the hoffmans are particularly narrow ,hence the ability to get 12 in a bs box !
Castellations are usually 11 to a box , in both brood and super , as super frames are drawn out , the castellations are replaced with those having 10 slots , some people even further reduce to 9 slots

JW

 

[victor meldrew]

freethorpe bees,

British Standard Nationals were designed to take eleven frames. Hive internal dimensions have not changed since the 1920s.

Hoffman frame spacings can mean one can squeeze in 12 frames instead of the standard eleven.

Regards, RAB

Sorry Rab ,
size nines all over your post