Single national brood box

[mattyo]

Does anyone use just a single brood box

I start out on brood and a half as advised buy my mentor but changed to 12x14 for the past few years as it easier. Someone i was talking to recently said most should do fine on a single standard national brood box .

 

[taurus]

My cousin has always kept single brood and swears by it. We had a speaker at our club last month who has kept bees since Noah's Ark ran aground and he's always had single brood.

I am on double brood but I am considering having one of my hives as single this year to see if it's any easier.

 

[Highlander]

I think it depends where you live. I had bees in Oxfordshire and then Essex that filled a National brood and a half but here in the Highlands a single National brood usually still has space even though I let them have the run of a brood and a half still for old times sake.

 

[B+.]

Does anyone use just a single brood box

I start out on brood and a half as advised buy my mentor but changed to 12x14 for the past few years as it easier. Someone i was talking to recently said most should do fine on a single standard national brood box .

I suggest that you read Into the lions dens' comments here http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39040&page=7.
I use double Langstroths.

 

[Swarm]

Does anyone use just a single brood box

I start out on brood and a half as advised buy my mentor but changed to 12x14 for the past few years as it easier. Someone i was talking to recently said most should do fine on a single standard national brood box .

Some bees are happy in single BS nats, others can fill three 14x12's. What you gain in one way you lose in another.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you use three 14 x 12 brood boxes you will likely need to extract a large amount of honey from those brood frames. A queen is just not able to lay 210,000 eggs in 25 days, so they woulld never ever be 'full' of brood. Never anywhere near full, even taking into account honey arch, pollen and any other things invented by some beekeepers. Exaggeration is akin to using the word super for a brood box!

 

[Finman]

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It does not pay much if you try.

It depends on the queen what kind of layer it is.

If the queen lays full one box in a week, next week a swarm is hanging on the tree top.

If the queen does not lay more than one box, then it will succeed.

One brood box will not save work. That is sure.

 

[domino]

I moved to 12x14s my 2nd year and then moved back to standards.

I find running double brood rather than in one large box gives me more flexability - adding/removing boxes, easier to split, etc.

I run foundationless frames and 12x14 would be too big for me.

Box size is really a very personal perference.

 

[Finman]

If you use three 14 x 12 brood boxes you will likely need to extract a large amount of honey from those brood frames. A queen is just not able to lay 210,000 eggs in 25 days, so they woulld ne!

Rose hive is such, that take off the excluder. To extract brood frames is nothing problem

It is important that bees bring the honey to home. Otherwise the next door hives catches the yield.

 

[B+.]

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It depends on the queen what kind of layer it is.

Finman is absolutely right. A prolific queen needs a lot of space to lay eggs (although I have never come across a queen that needs more than a double Langstroth for brood)
However, its not quite as simple as that. If there is a lot of fresh nectar coming in, the workers need somewhere to put it. Invariably it will go in the brood area, at least temporarily. Of course, they will ripen and move it up when they get time, but this is dependent on the nectar flow and weather. A couple of rainy days in the middle can give them time to reorganize things. If they don't reorganize the nectar, the poor queen can spend a lot of time looking around for somewhere to lay. So, its important that they have plenty of super space too.

 

[Stiffy]

I have a few single nationals and add another brood as and when needed. Single broods are a real faff and am slowly changing all to 14x12 which I like but have found that when waxing a 14x12 frame I have to make sure the wax is fully secured to prevent it sagging when drawn.
S

 

[Finman]

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I do not accept queens which lay only one box. But that happens even to good layer when the Queen is 3 y old.

 

[Little John]

Does anyone use just a single brood box

I start out on brood and a half as advised by my mentor but changed to 12x14 for the past few years as it easier. Someone i was talking to recently said most should do fine on a single standard national brood box .

I think the problem lies there ...

Imo, it's often not appropriate to follow the practices of others. By all means listen to what other do and say - but then each beekeeper has to figure out for themselves what size boxes and what procedures work best - for them, their bees, and in their specific location. There really is no 'one-size fits all' in beekeeping. Wish it were otherwise.
LJ

 

[domino]

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I do not accept queens which lay only one box. But that happens even to good layer when the Queen is 3 y old.

Do you expect them to run double langs?

 

[psafloyd]

Does anyone use just a single brood box

I start out on brood and a half as advised buy my mentor but changed to 12x14 for the past few years as it easier. Someone i was talking to recently said most should do fine on a single standard national brood box .

Haha. Easier, except for manipulating frames and moving boxes stuffed full of stores.

Mine are generally single nationals, though I now leave a super on over the winter.

 

[Robbo8916]

I had my first colony on single brood last year and they swarmed twice! Once I missed as I was away and the second one I found in an apple tree. The queen was clipped so the bees returned to the colony.

It did mean I managed to get a split out of them and have brought two colonies through winter (so far) but I will be putting serious thought into brood and a half for them as when I was closing them down for winter there was brood in the super which I was planning to remove. That is going to make for a messy time during first inspection/removing the super frames from the brood box!

Didn't really have much choice but there is going to be a lot of wild comb in there!

 

[Finman]

Do you expect them to run double langs?

I do not know about them. I run in 3 langstroth and without excluder.

You cannot get 150 kg honey from hive if you are afraid of work. Nothing drop from heaven like Mathew says.

To many even inspecting and opening the hive is too laborous job.

 

[Hunajavelho]

Langstroth frame 6750 cells.

good queen lays 3000 eggs a day, best 4000.
in the old days 1500 eggs.

21X3000=63000 cells

But if you dont use exluder the outer frames are not brood, so in a box of 10 there is only 8 brood frames per box and not all frames are fully laid, maybe 75% is more accurate.

So you have 3 langstroth boxes with so 24 brood frames = 162 000 cells X0,75 = 121500 cells for queen to lay in 21 days, such queen thus not exist on this planet, 90 000 is about maximum.

 

[Finman]

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I have never counted them, what they lay or how much a box has cells.
During decades I have seen what they do.

Bees have natural instinct to store pollen next to brood. Feeder bees need the stores all the time.
IT is a huge amount of pollen what they use. IT is better that pollen stores are in brood frames than in honey frames.

No one has counted the need of pollen stores.
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My evaluation is that pollen stores : brood space is 1:2.
Two box for brood and one box for pollen= 3 for brood.
.

 

[Finman]

So you have 3 langstroth boxes with so 24 brood frames = 162 000 cells X0,75 = 121500 cells for queen to lay in 21 days, such queen thus not exist on this planet, 90 000 is about maximum.

In 3 box system bees fill the lowest box with pollen in July. In June they tend to eate all what they get.
Pollen is much more valuable stuff than honey.

Some queens lay one box and some 2 boxes.