Should I be expecting more?

[Mumph]

I got a my first swarm into my hive back in May, i had a hive with undrawn frames that i introduced them to. Fast forward a few months and the bees have drawn 4 frames of brood, queen is laying on these 4, and one other frame which the bees are storing with honey. There are still 4 frames untouched. I have been regularly feeding with a 1:1 sugar mixture in a rapid feeder, and the bees seem to be very active in the day when i sit and watch. I have not put any supers on yet as my mentor has told me to wait until they have filled the frames in the brood box.
My question is should i put some supers on top (with a queen excluder) to encourage some honey stores? or should I put some undrawn frames in between the brood frames. I'm worried they are not doing enough to survive the winter, I'm not going to harvest this year.
My hive is East facing with the frames facing the entrance to the hive (cold facing ?).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's obvious they are nowhere near ready for a super - putting one on won't encourage them to gather stores.
I'd be more concerned that they are so slow building up, especially as you are still feeding. A May swarm, even this year should have filled the brood box with brood and be on their second super by now.
Splittingt he brood in what is essentially a weak colony with foundation is not a good idea

 

[Erichalfbee]

I got a my first swarm into my hive back in May, i had a hive with undrawn frames that i introduced them to. Fast forward a few months and the bees have drawn 4 frames of brood, queen is laying on these 4, and one other frame which the bees are storing with honey. There are still 4 frames untouched. I have been regularly feeding with a 1:1 sugar mixture in a rapid feeder, and the bees seem to be very active in the day when i sit and watch. I have not put any supers on yet as my mentor has told me to wait until they have filled the frames in the brood box.
My question is should i put some supers on top (with a queen excluder) to encourage some honey stores? or should I put some undrawn frames in between the brood frames. I'm worried they are not doing enough to survive the winter, I'm not going to harvest this year.
My hive is East facing with the frames facing the entrance to the hive (cold facing ?).

You need bees to make honey and it is a fine balance feeding them. If you feed them too much they draw frames and immediately fill them with syrup rather than the bees you need. You definitely do not want a super. I would hold off feeding them and reassess the situation in a week. Put some insulation on the crownboard. I might be tempted to slide in the inspection tray too. They should have built up faster than they have. Did the swarm have a mated queen?

 

[Mumph]

You need bees to make honey and it is a fine balance feeding them. If you feed them too much they draw frames and immediately fill them with syrup rather than the bees you need. You definitely do not want a super. I would hold off feeding them and reassess the situation in a week. Put some insulation on the crownboard. I might be tempted to slide in the inspection tray too. They should have built up faster than they have. Did the swarm have a mated queen?

Thanks for your reply. I hope you don't mind me asking, why would I need to put insulation on the crownboard? What is the inspection tray? I have a tray under the hive do you mean that? And how would I know if my queen is mated, someone is laying eggs and lots of brood, surely that means she's mated ?
many thanks

 

[Murox]

Insulation is a thermal barrier, hot or cold, helps keep hive temperature stable.
Is the brood drone brood? Are there multiple eggs in a cell?
Tray is removable so you can inspect it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And how would I know if my queen is mated, someone is laying eggs and lots of brood, surely that means she's mated ?
many thanks

My point was simply if you had a swarm with a virgin queen she would have had to get mated first. If a prime swarm then you would have had a couple of weeks or more head start in building up the colony. I had a prime swarm in a bait box on May 19th and they drew the whole of a 14x12 box in 2 weeks and they now have three supers on

 

[captain666]

Hi Mumph.

You say; <....or should I put some undrawn frames in between the brood frames. >

Never ever split the brood by putting drawn or undrawn frames in between.

What you can do if you have brood on say six frames, let's call them a,b,c,d,e and f, is to rearrange these brood frames, for the strongest will be say c and d. and the weakest weakest will be a and f.

So you end up with a new configuration of c,b,a,f,e,d.

Fred.

 

[drex]

These bees have been in this box for 2-3 months, you have been feeding, and yet have only 5 drawn frames. What sort of hive do you have as you only account for 9 frames?
There is something wrong with these bees and/or the queen. Did you treat for varroa when you hived them? They could have Nosema, for which you would need a microscope to accurately diagnose.
Certainly follow the advice already given, but perhaps get a more experienced beek to look them over.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Never ever split the brood by putting drawn or undrawn frames in between.

Unless and until you know what you're doing, the when and why

 

[captain666]

hello drex.

You say; < They could have Nosema, for which you would need a microscope to accurately diagnose. >

There is a handy field test for Nosema. Take a live bee, cut it's head off, then with a tweezers pinch the abdomen section where the sting is. then gently pull out the main gut.

If it's a nice amber colour and like a tiny vacuum cleaner hose, then this bees is healthy, repeat on a few more. Doing this on a piece of white paper helps.

If it should be off white and straight, then as you suggest have a microscopic test done for confirmation.

Fred.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Never ever split the brood by putting drawn or undrawn frames in between.

You can actually.
Not that Mumph should but it’s a nifty trick to get new drawn frames of brood for winter. A strong colony will easily draw a frame in the middle of the brood in a matter of days and the queen will lay it up. You can do it a few times at weekly intervals.

 

[captain666]

Ah, but he didn't have a strong colony.

Perhaps I should have said 'never ever split a weak colony,'

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah, but he didn't have a strong colony.

Perhaps I should have said 'never ever split a weak colony,'

Yes because that would have been accurate.

 

[madasafish]

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Yesterday at 12:16 PM

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I got a my first swarm into my hive back in May, i had a hive with undrawn frames that i introduced them to. Fast forward a few months and the bees have drawn 4 frames of brood, queen is laying on these 4, and one other frame which the bees are storing with honey. There are still 4 frames untouched. I have been regularly feeding with a 1:1 sugar mixture in a rapid feeder, and the bees seem to be very active in the day when i sit and watch. I have not put any supers on yet as my mentor has told me to wait until they have filled the frames in the brood box."###


I fed a hive like that 3 weeks ago : it is now on 8 frames and brood and stores. (Errr not mine - someone I help)

1. Your mentor is correct. NO supers.
2. Bees fed like you have done should do a LOT better.
So you either have a carp queen or they have nosema.

I ONLY feed bees adding thymol as per Hivemaker's recipe - search forum - which has added thymol.. to stop the solution from going mouldy and as an unwanted bonus reducing the effect of nosema.... which I suspect your bees have...

So you have a choice: try HM's recipe or just sugar solution with a few drops of thymol.. or requeen at vast expense . ( I always start cheap).

Forget supers. Autumn approaches. Bees prepare for winter. Your colony sounds doomed unless you sort it out. (yes I know it sounds brutal but been there before and nature is.)




Been there,screwed it up...

 

[bobba]

I caught 2 swarms in May. I caught them 10 days apart.

Swarm 1 have drawn out brood + 1/2 and drawn and almost filled 2 supers. It took them about a week to draw the brood box.

Swarm 2 have barley finished a brood box. They are more or less the same as yours.

Swarm 1 was huge, I almost fell off the ladder when I caught them in a box. Swarm 2 was only maybe 20-30% the size of swarm 1.

Swarm 1 also had a mated queen. I saw the queen from swarm 2 return from a mating flight about 10 days after capture.

So the size of the swarm and if the queen is mated makes a huge difference.