Severe criticism on my wood hive design, please

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

As a 2nd-year hobbyist beekeeper, in 2014 I would like to have three types of hives, namely a simple styrofoam hive (just to see what happens, you know, for the experience) and two wooden hives, namely a long-deep hive (Dartington style) and a short-deep (Dadant/Langstroth style). As I'm on a tight budget, I've decided to build these hives myself.

I've written a document about the *wooden hives* (mostly for my own reference, and to get my thoughts in a row) and I would appreciate it if you could have a quick look at it and tell me if anything jumps at you as being dramatically wrong. The file is 13 pages long -- don't read all of it, just skim it and look at the pictures mostly.

http://wikisend.com/download/475944/ugchelhaus_small.pdf (2.4 MB)

Thanks
Samuel

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well, if you want severe criticism you've come to the right place - whether you want it or not!

 

[enrico]

Sorry didn't fancy opening an unknown file! Would love to see it but......you have to be so careful of some recent virus attacks!
As long as you have studied bee spaces and understand why you need them you should be ok
E

 

[VEG]

I opened it (on a mac) and no problems

 

[ugcheleuce]

Sorry didn't fancy opening an unknown file! Would love to see it but......you have to be so careful of some recent virus attacks!

I was not aware that PDF files could contain viruses (except by embedding, but embedded objects don't auto-run in PDF viewers). I actually chose PDF over DOC because PDF is more likely to be trusted.

 

[enrico]

Ok, I'll give it a try.....sorry!

 

[Finman]

I burned my Darlington type hives 49 years ago, and so did other beekeepers here too.
It was the most Popular 50 y ago, and now nobody has them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I burned my Darlington type hives .

yes, much too stationary - try the stocktons instead

 

[victor meldrew]

Watch your tees and q's
VM

 

[Finman]

.
Those Darlington hives what Mr Darington invented in 1974.

They have been in Estern Europe about 100 years. Chest hive, or what ever is very common. They may have dadant frames, or 30 cm x 30 cm or what ever, but all they are very hevy to handle.



Long hive from Ukraine and from Russia

 

[Skyhook]

One comment- a very experienced beekeeper of my aquaintance used to have a couple of Dartingtons, and found them very good for producing bees, not so good for honey. If you are planning to go into nuc production it may be useful.

And the severe criticism- there are enough hive types without complicating things further. Fine to build your own but there is no mileage in not following a standard design.

.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Those Darlington hives what Mr Darington invented in 1974. They have been in Estern Europe about 100 years. Chest hive, or what ever is very common. They may have dadant frames, or 30 cm x 30 cm or what ever, but all they are very hevy to handle.

Indeed. I don't think they are meant to be moved.

These long-deep hives are not uncommon in my region and neighbouring countries. The Einraumbeute is one example. But... I don't speak any of those languages, so unfortunately I can't make use of their information. I do speak English, though, and so I'm limited to using information from Dartington and Omlet Beehaus.

In other words, I don't think of the Dartington as something "newly invented", but as something "in a language that I speak".

That said, Google Translate is a friend (so to speak), and if you have any URLs of online reference materials or how-to guides for dealing with these long-deep hives in other languages, please let me know.

 

[ugcheleuce]

There are enough hive types without complicating things further. Fine to build your own but there is no mileage in not following a standard design.

Thanks, but I don't consider my hive to be a new design -- I'm trying to use existing "designs", except that I want them cheap. The large frame in the short deep box is the only "experimental" part of the design.

In this I kinda agree with what Warré said in his book:

It is not unusual to hear the novice deciding as follows: 'I will try out two or three of the most fashionable systems, study them, and see which is best'. But life is short, especially active life. Unless you are especially privileged, you will not be able to reach a definite conclusion.

 

[pargyle]

I burned my Darlington type hives 49 years ago, and so did other beekeepers here too.
It was the most Popular 50 y ago, and now nobody has them.

Well, that's not strictly true - I have a Long Deep Hive (and there are others around) and it works very well as a hive on a variety of levels - yes. it's heavy, but as long as it doesn't have to be moved it's not a problem. As for honey production - well, if you need every last drop of honey out of your bees then it's perhaps not going to meet YOUR needs - but, from what Samuel has said in this thread and others, his criteria are wider than just honey production, so he should not be discouraged for exploring alternative hives and methods of beekeeping.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[Finman]

Well, that's not strictly true - I have a Long Deep Hive (and there are others around) and it works very well as a hive on a variety of levels - yes. it's heavy, but as long as it doesn't have to be moved it's not a problem. As for honey production - well, if you need every last drop of honey out of your bees then it's perhaps not going to meet YOUR needs - but, from what Samuel has said in this thread and others, his criteria are wider than just honey production, so he should not be discouraged for exploring alternative hives and methods of beekeeping.

with 5 months experience and with half hive.
Real experiences you have got from a swarm, not from real wintered hive.

And you speak like large scale beekeeper with 500 hives.
But actually your experiences are minimal

Our experienced guys here, who had tried next generation of "long hive", they say that bees have difficulties to handle brood and honey stores horizontaly. Swarming rate is high in horizontal hives.

It would be nice to nurse hives when they are not towers. It would be a short acces to inspection too in shallow hives, compared to 8 boxes.

 

[pargyle]

with 5 months experience and with half hive.
Real experiences you have got from a swarm, not from real wintered hive.

And you speak like large scale beekeeper with 500 hives.

Our experienced guys here, who had tried next generation of "long hive", they say that bees have difficulties to handle brood and honey stores horizontaly. Swarming rate is high in horizontal hives.

It would be nice to nurse hives when they are not towers. It would be a short acces to inspection too in shallow hives, compared to 8 boxes.

Par for the course from you Finman ... if it doesn't fit your style of beekeeping it's wrong ...

 

[Finman]

Well, that's not strictly true - I have a Long Deep Hive (and there are others around) and it works very well as a hive on a variety of levels - yes. it's heavy, but as long as it doesn't have to be moved it's not a problem. As for honey production .

You have not extracted a single kilo of honey from your hive, but you have perfect opinion, how your swarm hive have worked.

When I started beekeeping, I extracted from every swarm 40 kg honey .....but it took first 3 years experience to do that trick. And at the enm of summer those hives had 30 langstroth frames . Year was 1966.



Beekeeping is not that simple that you have one hive in your house corner and they you know everything and you can debate against 5o years experience and against 80 kg average yields.

Pargyle, you need to learn listen what I am saying to British beekeeping.
We had thousands of LONG DEEP HIVE owners and I know what those hives were.

 

[Finman]

....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

...

HAPPY NEW YEAR
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