Setting up a honey business

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I started my career (it was a career then, not a job) in HM Customs by doing my stint in purgatory - VAT - I used to register new traders and found on the whole that accountants were a stupid, ignorant, arrogant incompetent lot - some costing their clients thousands for no reason. I'm no great shakes on taxation and the like but I found it much easier to nurse a self employed carpenter (who by his personal admission rated his numeracy skills as working out how much skirting board he needed on the back of a fag packet with a pencil) through the registration and VAT return process than it was to convince an accountant that he new bugger all about VAT, was talking through his own rear and was steering his client towards early bancruptcy and maybe a prison sentence!
As for the Inland revenue, having worked with them, well - let's say JK Rowling had just finished a face to face tax assesment when she thought up the dementors. Soulless gutless bunch of parasites who would sell their own sisters into white slavery if there was a box for it on their work returns

 

[Erichalfbee]

Inland revenue
Soulless gutless bunch of parasites who would sell their own sisters into white slavery if there was a box for it on their work returns

I was investigated .......
AFTER my accountant told me not to bother renewing my insurance against his fees for such an eventuality.

"nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition"
came to mind

He had to do the work for nothing.....and he did, but I still have bad dreams about The Revenue.

 

[ROACHMAN]

Its like I previously posted, if there is an INTENTION to make a profit then the beekeeping HAS to be treated as a business. There isnt a decision to be made

I would have thought that most people with more than 10 hives are intending to make a profit and any profit/loss has to be declared to HMRC like it or not

 

[peteinwilts]

I have not been selling... just giving to friends and family for xmas (marketing! ), and am performing many mead experiments.

I know it is something I will have to do though at some point, as buckets of unfiltered honey are filling up my garage! ... thankfully it keeps!

I am thinking of turning at least half of my garage into a honey processing room, and the other half storage.

I would be interested in knowing how you get on. My financial skills are bordering incompetent, and this is a thread I am closely watching.

 

[yeogi75]

as it was mention on the thread earlier if any part of your property is used for your business wholly or partly and if you go bust or something you could lose your garage to pay your depts. wants checking ?

 

[psafloyd]

My accountant said that as soon as I start making a profit, however small, out of beekeeping, I should be thinking of declaring it.

I am monitoring things over the past year, and so far, I am nowhere near, but will keep an eye on things.

 

[dpearce4]

My accountant said that as soon as I start making a profit, however small, out of beekeeping, I should be thinking of declaring it.

I am monitoring things over the past year, and so far, I am nowhere near, but will keep an eye on things.

If you do make a profit then make sure you claim back for all the losses you have made upto that point otherwise the taxman will be well quids in. Your accountant should have told you this though otherwise he is incompetent.

 

[ROACHMAN]

I did my return last week, made a loss of £2000 for 2012/13.

2013/14 should be a profit as my turnover is over £3000 for this year already

 

[Tom Bick]

I was investigated .......
AFTER my accountant told me not to bother renewing my insurance against his fees for such an eventuality.

"nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition"
came to mind

He had to do the work for nothing.....and he did, but I still have bad dreams about The Revenue.

Brings back memories of my investigation.

It became farcical towards the end recorded meetings, letters requesting information why one week I never bought any vegetables, told it was down to me to prove my innocence ect ect. I walked away thinking if that’s how they treat you for being honest, why bother.

 

[peteinwilts]

as it was mention on the thread earlier if any part of your property is used for your business wholly or partly and if you go bust or something you could lose your garage to pay your depts. wants checking ?

I do not borrow for my beekeeping habits, and therefore cannot go bust (?)

As I have another full time job, the bees are just an obsessive hobby, whilst not wanting to fall foul of the law.

I never plan to make it my sole income, and therefore my 'real' income supports the beekeeping side. If it supports itself or gives a little pocket money, I (or rather the wife!) would be happy!

so far, I have not tried selling honey (although after giving jar to a friend, the shop in which he works said if I want, they would take every jar I produce).
I have not yet applied for H&S (due to building work... hence 'unfiltered in buckets') and not looked into the tax side (and as I am not yet selling, I can take my time investigating)

The room I am creating would only be used for part of the year for honey... I am sure we will use it as a spare utility room\storage for the rest of the time.
Maybe a better phrase would be 'a room to keep my extractor in'

 

[VEG]

With 40+ hives it will take some fooling the tax man that you give it all away.

 

[peteinwilts]

With 40+ hives it will take some fooling the tax man that you give it all away.

I don't! Most of last years crop is still in 30lb buckets.

2012 crop went to friends and family.

I hope to have H&S and looked into the tax side by the time this years crop comes around...

 

[pargyle]

Brings back memories of my investigation.

It became farcical towards the end recorded meetings, letters requesting information why one week I never bought any vegetables, told it was down to me to prove my innocence ect ect. I walked away thinking if that’s how they treat you for being honest, why bother.

Yes ... JBM had it right ... my dealings with IR left me feeling exactly like you Tom ... soulless idiots with little common sense who just follow their remit 'To collect tax' as I was told.

Someone said to me a while ago ... if you owe the IR £30, 000 YOU have a problem ... if you owe them £3million ... THEY have a problem - strange how they manage to do deals with Starbucks, Amazon, etc. but pursue the small fry to the point where they are declared bankrupt ? Easier targets ?

 

[ROACHMAN]

hey Pete, It would be a good idea to get the paperwork side done in advance of selling as it can take a couple of months.

If selling to shops or other third parties

You need a level 2 hygiene certificate which can be obtained online - takes about 2 hours of learning followed my a multiple choice test, if you pass they send you a certificate which you can print off - even a monkey can pass.

Then you need to contact the local council who will come out (after a few weeks delay) and talk through a few things eg not re using lids etc and they will check extracting equipment etc (stainless or food grade plastic).

No problem using the kitchen, I spent 2 days cleaning the kitchen from top to bottom and the inspector look about 10 seconds looking at it (better safe that sorry though)

Its a good idea to have product and public liability insurance which is included in your BBKA membership if you are a member. also includes FB insurance up to 40 hives.

As youve got over 40 hives you should think about joining the BFA - (need over 40 to join but can join with 20 as an associate member (as I have)

I sell my honey at a local farmers market which is held every Sunday - its really enjoyable meeting the customers face to face, discussing beekeeping and seeing them come back for more each week, I also sell t lights -must have sold a couple of hundred during the lead up to christman as 50p each

James

 

[VEG]

I don't think it is a legal requirement to have the the food cert. although some farmers markets do insist on them.


Craig

 

[farbee]

I don't think it is a legal requirement to have the the food cert. although some farmers markets do insist on them.


Craig

Yes there was a recent thread on this which showed it was not necessary for a small honey producer.

 

[VEG]

I did one the first year I started selling, which has long since expired. Won't do it again unless I have to. It has very little to do with honey.


Craig

 

[Erichalfbee]

I sell...... at a local farmers market....... t lights -must have sold a couple of hundred during the lead up to christman as 50p each

James

What's your secret ROACHMAN
I parcelled mine up in pretty origami boxes with raffia decoration for Christmas and sold two!!!!!!
Is it better to sell them singly,do you think?

 

[ROACHMAN]

I just sold them individually with no added frills, 50p each or 5 for £2.00.

I promoted the perceived health benefits, aroma from wax and lack of smoke compared with the horrible paraffin ones sold so cheaply in supermarkets

 

[Roola]

If you are commercialising up, where do people suggest hives are bought from?