Second Inspection and some Questions

[Adam Bee]

It was my second inspection today. And I have some observations and some questions.

Today's inspection was a little close to the inspection I did last Sunday, but I'm away this weekend and I was worried about the space they have.

My boxes hold 12 frames. A week and a half ago, I installed 6 frames from a nuc. I placed the new frames in the center of the hive body and inserted a new frame on each side between the center 4 frames and the outside frames to encourage brood and avoid any possibility of being bound up by stores. My new frames just use starter strips.

Last Sunday, on the first inspection, the ladies had fully drawn 3 out of the 6 new fames and partly drawn 2 more; but those were really just starting an oval on one, a thin strip on the other.

This inspection saw all but one frame fully drawn, and bees were beginning to beard & work on that last frame.

The inspection was quicker than I wanted it to be, but I've got a full agenda today. I did take time to look closely, on the frames I did remove, but without my trusty assistant beekeeper who is on his school journey this week, I didn't get any photos.

Fr 1; New Frame. Starter Strip and a few little bits of new wax, some bearding bees.
Fr 2; New Frame. Fully drawn*. Stores. Some nectar. No honey. Lots of pollen.
Fr 3; Nuc Frame. Brood, mostly capped. Some drone. Little stores.
Fr 4; New Frame. Fully drawn*. Brood. Some capped. Eggs and Larva.
Fr 5; Nuc Frame. Capped brood, some empty cells. Some honey along the top. A few cells of pollen.
Fr 6; Nuc Frame. Capped brood, some empty cells. Some honey. More pollen.
Fr 7; Nuc Frame. Capped brood, some empty cells. Some honey. No real pollen. LOTS of capped drones from Nuc.
Fr 8; Nuc Frame. Capped brood, some empty cells. Some honey. No pollen visible. Some capped drones from Nuc.
Fr 9; New Frame. Fully drawn*. QUEEN. Brood. Capped and uncapped. No capped drone cells apparent.
Fr 10; Nuc Frame. DID NOT INSPECT - New comb on top arch with some evidence of new capped honey.
Fr 11; New Frame. DID NOT INSPECT - Apparently fully drawn comb.
Fr 12; New Frame. Fully drawn*. Nectar. No apparent brood.

I decided that with 11/12 frames drawn. BIAS. Lots of traffic. Stores... I'd add a box, so I nadired a new box of 12 frames with starter strips to let them expand.

What I find interesting is with the "Fully Drawn Comb*", as it was coming from starter strips, the ladies are leaving 1 bee space around the comb on the sides and bottom, almost as if they'd read Phil Chandler's book on top bar hives. I did have to be careful as I could see the comb had a desire to bend at the join.

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I'm posting all this is detail as I need to ask about Frames 10 and 11. I chose not to lift the frames out for a full inspection because on one side the bees just would not clear the lugs and every time I tried to get them to leave - misting, brushing, etc - even more would boil out from below and cover them at least one bee deep if not more. They did not want to be disturbed.

My initial feeling was: Fine! I've seen the queen. I've seen new larva in newly drawn comb. I've seen stores, nectar and some old honey and maybe even some new honey. The colony is fine. Add box and move on!

Now that I've moved on, however, my new-bee doubts creep in. (JBM will probably call me a worry wart, but he's probably correct.)

What were they so passionate about in those two frames? Were there queen cells? I won't be able to inspect these frames again until next Tuesday? Should I go back and check those two today??

What's the sage advice?

 

[enrico]

Nope, they do that, especially toward the end of an inspection. Just smoke them off the lugs if you want to inspect but usually it is only stores or drone anyway
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You're 3xpecting them to do a heck of a lot in a short time, don't be surprised if they grind to a temporary halt now you've doubled the room they have to fill.
You may be able to get 12 nice new shiny frams in at the moment, but once the bees will work on them you will struggle to get them all in in future. You're better off having 11 frames and a dummy board

 

[Adam Bee]

Yeah, the dummy board may be a good idea. Having the one empty frame to remove helped. I didn't really have to care about it. It was empty and nothing was there. Just pop it out and there was a space to inspect with.

All the other frames, however, were drawn and full or being filled, so that's why I chose to add the new box. There was not a lot of free space other than that one last frame. The ladies so far drew out and mostly filled 2 full frames in 3-4 days, so at that rate, they'd draw that last frame by Sat. at the latest.

Do you feel that I should have left the colony with 11 full frames and one more to go over the weekend, just to fill it up; before adding a new box?

If so, why? I'm curious what the feeling about that is? I was under the impression that if the bees "run out of space" it encourages swarming during this part of the year.

Also, without dummy boards, it's an all or nothing addition, as far as I can tell, no? I can't really add half a box any more than I can dig half a hole!

Also, jenkinsbrynmair, what is your feeling about the two frames I didn't inspect. Just leave them? I could see, looking down into the hive, that Fr.11 was fully drawn and I assume that since Fr.12 was fully drawn and mostly full of nectar, that Fr.11 would be as well, as it was more central.

Thanks for the advice and help, everyone.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How full is full? was it all wall to wall brood, or was there some space?
You also have to consider that, as the brood emerges, they free more laying space.
Once you get to eight frames full of brood you should be putting a super on.

 

[Adam Bee]

With Fr.10 being from the Nuc, and it had visible brood as well as an arc of honey and Fr.11 being a mystery (Brood? Nectar? Honey? Little Fairies? The pattern on the other side of the hive says it's probably stores?? But that's an educated guess...) - there were 8 known frames that were primarily brood, out of 12 total frames.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Just hope the chap that sold you the nuc used wired broods then that cuts down the chance of a disaster to 50 %

 

[drex]

Like JBM my rule of thumb is to add more space when brood ( and bees) are on 8 frames. Adam, have you learned how to manipulate frames so that you can look on both sides while keeping the frames vertical? A skill I learned from my top bar hive and just as important in your situation.

 

[Adam Bee]

Like JBM my rule of thumb is to add more space when brood ( and bees) are on 8 frames. Adam, have you learned how to manipulate frames so that you can look on both sides while keeping the frames vertical? A skill I learned from my top bar hive and just as important in your situation.

Well. I seem to have at least 8 frames of brood, but that is out of 12. So now I have added a second box.

I have definitely learned not to twist the frames without complete comb or wires! I was aware on one of the frame that had real weight in it - mostly nectar - that even a small amount off vertical started to affect the comb, so I was even more careful after that. I find that I’m slow and careful with the frames anyway, as I don’t want to hurt the bees, so being careful with the ones that are unwired is fairly easy. I just have to remember I can’t turn them horizontal. It’s the ones with wires that make me lazy!

Thanks for the advice. And I’ll admit I’d expected the bees to fill the frame first thing. I suspect that now that I have given them more room, they won’t join the comb to the frame edge until they run out of space in the new box.

 

[Adam Bee]

..

 

[Ian123]

Hi Adam...is your new box all starter strips as well, if so on your next inspection and they have not started drawing any in the new box lift a frame of mainly sealed brood into the top box in the center, may encourage them to bridge the gap to the starters. They may do it happily on there own but it wont hurt....Ian

 

[Adam Bee]

Yes. The new box has all starter strips. I’ll keep an eye open and make sure they are not scared of the new box; and if they are - that’s good advice. Thanks.

I’m sure I’ll report back, as I can’t keep my “mouth” shut.

It may also be worth noting that I’m running “all mediums” (190cm/7.5”) so the comb does not have the area of a deep or a jumbo and will get drawn quicker.