Seasoned beekeepers

[Erichalfbee]

If i remember correct it is very hard to detect sugar in honey and the only place that can do the test is in Germany but it is a expensive process..

That’s what I thought. How can you tell for sure?
There’s a rough and ready test involving dropping a teaspoon of honey into a glass of water. Heaven knows what that shows

 

[Beefriendly]

The latest test in the armoury is nuclear magnetic resonance...
Google Honey gate..how Europe is being flooded with fake honey..
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ag...-how-europe-is-being-flooded-with-fake-honey/
Or read the Sept issue of ABJ article where there is a comprehensive article on fake honeys and testing for them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The latest test in the armoury is nuclear magnetic resonance...
Google Honey gate..how Europe is being flooded with fake honey..
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ag...-how-europe-is-being-flooded-with-fake-honey/
Or read the Sept issue of ABJ article where there is a comprehensive article on fake honeys and testing for them.

Thanks for that. I’ve read something similar and there was a tv piece about fake food that had honey as the focus one week.
Not our own home grown honey then, which is what I thought some posters were referring to.

 

[Millet]

That’s what I thought. How can you tell for sure?
There’s a rough and ready test involving dropping a teaspoon of honey into a glass of water. Heaven knows what that shows

I found a link last year on the subject..not sure if it was emailed now or i found it myself..however it was in Germany testing Chinese and EU honey...the findings where shocking..

 

[Angry_Mob]

Thanks for that. I’ve read something similar and there was a tv piece about fake food that had honey as the focus one week.
Not our own home grown honey then, which is what I thought some posters were referring to.

Is it Rotten you're referring to? I haven't got a chance to watch it but looks interesting: https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80146284

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is it Rotten you're referring to? I haven't got a chance to watch it but looks interesting: https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80146284

Yes that’s the one.
As soon as tests are developed to spot adulteration the Chinese find ways round it

 

[Antipodes]

Do the bees ever move their stored sugar syrup up into a honey super that has been put on after feeding (assuming that the sugar stores are not bruised)? Do they ever move it to make space for expanding brood areas for instance?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do the bees ever move their stored sugar syrup up into a honey super that has been put on after feeding (assuming that the sugar stores are not bruised)? Do they ever move it to make space for expanding brood areas for instance?

Yes

 

[pargyle]

The key is to remove excess frames of stores in spring so they have room for brood, replacement with drawn frames or frames they can draw out ...it's a bit of a balancing act and needs to take account of colonies that build up rapidly in spring but at the same time be conscious that colonies need stores during erratic spring weather.. they can also use stores to build out comb in new frames ....

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks Pargyle,

I think it could be quite easy to get that balancing act wrong and end up with some, perhaps just a small amount, of sugar syrup in the honey supers.

 

[Fusion_power]

When "honey" is 50% or more added sweetener, it is not just a "small amount". Even the best tests available have trouble discriminating with less than 5% adulteration. Fortunately, the chinese are not interested in low levels. They go for 80% or more which then gets blended by processors to wind up about half honey and half corn syrup or an analog.

 

[Antipodes]

Hi Fusion..
Yeah fair enough. I was thinking more of the comment earlier in the posts,

"But they are....50% of the Honey show entries at Apimondia in Canada this year were disqualified as not real honey."


An unseasoned beekeeper is probably more at risk of inadvertently getting the sugar syrup up into the supers. Surely if a person feeds sugar syrup as autumn or winter food it is difficult to ensure the bees don't move any of it up to the honey super when it is added later as the flows come in and as the brood expands?

 

[enrico]

Thanks Pargyle,

I think it could be quite easy to get that balancing act wrong and end up with some, perhaps just a small amount, of sugar syrup in the honey supers.

That is why I try and stress that feeding is a fine art. Your hives should be really light by the time the first flow starts. But beekeepers panic and throw fondant on..... Me too!!!!.....it is such a fine line!
E

 

[Beefriendly]

And worth noting that individual hives burn through their stores at different rates. Some are frugal and some use them for fun....
No one solution, just keep checking after you get them all heavy. Already got one of mine that has guzzled down 15 litres of thick syrup and now needed fondant adding!. Not even a particularly large colony either.
And no it's not being robbed.

 

[mike99]

And worth noting that individual hives burn through their stores at different rates. Some are frugal and some use them for fun....
No one solution, just keep checking after you get them all heavy. Already got one of mine that has guzzled down 15 litres of thick syrup and now needed fondant adding!. Not even a particularly large colony either.
And no it's not being robbed.

It is cold here today and I have just hefted mine this morning and the strong hive is heavy but the weaker hive is less so. I suspect I am going to have to put some fondant on the weaker one at some point. I have an eke with kingspan on so I don't know if I have to introduce another eke for the fondant to sit on the frames or inside a cutout on top of the CB? Last year I did the latter.

 

[beeno]

And worth noting that individual hives burn through their stores at different rates. Some are frugal and some use them for fun....
No one solution, just keep checking after you get them all heavy. Already got one of mine that has guzzled down 15 litres of thick syrup and now needed fondant adding!. Not even a particularly large colony either.
And no it's not being robbed.

Late production of main bulk of winter bees or just greedy?

 

[Poly Hive]

The syrup management is really a SPRING art and many don't understand how to get the bees to eat those stores up. This should all be done of course before the supers are even thought of.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

. I have an eke with kingspan on so I don't know if I have to introduce another eke for the fondant to sit on the frames or inside a cutout on top of the CB? Last year I did the latter.

Most winters it won't matter which way round, but occasionally it does. If fondant is required then I place directly on top of frames with an eke, usually a 2.5 kg bag, non of this pussyfooting around with filled tubs. Many place fondant over a hole in the crown board. Something I used to do until I lost a few -colonies to isolation starvation in that cold winter about 9-10 years ago when they wouldn't break cluster and move a few inches to take it.

 

[Poly Hive]

I too feed directly onto the topbars to avoid precisely that issue that BF mentions that of isolation starvation.

If the fondant is over the bars then its accessible. In Spring there is fondant left over I dissolve it for stimulative feeding and if most of the stores combs are still full well bruising with the flat of the hive tool soon gets that consumed and filled iwth brood. Or of course they can be removed and kept for emergencies and or feeding nucs.

PH

 

[mike99]

Most winters it won't matter which way round, but occasionally it does. If fondant is required then I place directly on top of frames with an eke, usually a 2.5 kg bag, non of this pussyfooting around with filled tubs. Many place fondant over a hole in the crown board. Something I used to do until I lost a few -colonies to isolation starvation in that cold winter about 9-10 years ago when they wouldn't break cluster and move a few inches to take it.

Thanks BF. So BB, eke with fondant, CB, eke with insulation, roof?