Same old question

[BeeKeyPlayer]

This must have been answered many times before, but to anyone cares to venture an opinion yet again, thank you.

13 days ago, one colony had sealed brood only, and I couldn't find the (marked) queen. I inserted a frame of eggs and larvae.

Yesterday, there was no brood at all, except for two huge sealed queen cells, and some scattered drone brood. There are lots of bees. They were very defensive, even considering that it was late in the day with thunder in the distance.

Should I give them a queen cell, or a mated queen (both available at the end of the week), or unite them now with another colony, or shake them into the long grass? Or something else?

 

[Wilco]

This must have been answered many times before, but to anyone cares to venture an opinion yet again, thank you.

13 days ago, one colony had sealed brood only, and I couldn't find the (marked) queen. I inserted a frame of eggs and larvae.

Yesterday, there was no brood at all, except for two huge sealed queen cells, and some scattered drone brood. There are lots of bees. They were very defensive, even considering that it was late in the day with thunder in the distance.

Should I give them a queen cell, or a mated queen (both available at the end of the week), or unite them now with another colony, or shake them into the long grass? Or something else?

They already have a queen cell they don't need any more. Either eave them be to finish sorting themselves out or destroy the cells and introduce a bought queen if you want.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

The two queen cells look abnormally large. When I've seen these before, they've come to nothing. But maybe they are healthy and were created from the frame of open brood I gave them. In which case they should have emerged a day or two ago.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Long cells often mean the larva has been dislodged so as you say will come to nothing. The fact that they were defensive seems to suggest to ne that the bees know they are queenless. I would remove the cells and put in a mated queen.

 

[Wilco]

The two queen cells look abnormally large. When I've seen these before, they've come to nothing. But maybe they are healthy and were created from the frame of open brood I gave them. In which case they should have emerged a day or two ago.

As per Dani above but eggs 13 days ago theoretically still could give you three days before emergence so maybe waiting a day or two before breaking them down. You could always buy in the queen and if one of the cells does emerge just make two small nucs and put the queen in one of them.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Is that right? They started with brood that was at least three days old (old egg or young larva) so it would be just another 13 days to emergence. I think!

Edit: sorry, if they waited for a new egg to be three or four days old, yes, you're right, it could be three days yet till emergence.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are they being attended to by the bees? I often find that viable cells are being looked after.

 

[ericbeaumont]

queen cells look abnormally large

Sacrifice one by opening it at the tip (which might open too easily). Cell might be empty, or have a dead worker inside, or a dead black larvae.

 

[enrico]

As above, you may even find a virgin inside!

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Thanks. I'll let you know - and take a picture. My concern was that the scattered drone brood indicated laying workers and that the colony would not be requeenable, but I guess that is two or three weeks away yet. I've read that in normal colony life are always some laying workers and the the hygiene police remove these eggs - which don't smell of the queen.

 

[ericbeaumont]

scattered drone brood indicated laying worker

Laying workers can be averted or avoided by adding brood; Michael Bush at bushfarms.com has good info. and offers this advice: add a frame of open brood every week until they rear a queen. Usually by the second or third frame of open brood they will start queen cells.

 

[Finman]

13 days ago, one colony had sealed brood only,

Yesterday, there was no brood at all, except for two huge sealed queen cells, and some scattered drone brood.

The queen layed last time 21 days ago, because all worker cells have emerged.

Of course no queen will emerge from those strange queen cells.

There is a virus disease, which makes queen cells very long.

 

[Finman]

As above, you may even find a virgin inside!

Be carefull. It might be Jesus child.

 

[Finman]

Laying workers can be averted or avoided by adding brood; Michael Bush at bushfarms.com has good info. and offers this advice: add a frame of open brood every week until they rear a queen. Usually by the second or third frame of open brood they will start queen cells.

Why cant you buy a laying queen?
When you rear a new queen and it starts to lay, it takes 3 weeks.

At same time a laying queen makes one round new bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why cant you buy a laying queen?
When you rear a new queen and it starts to lay, it takes 3 weeks.

At same time a laying queen makes one round new bees.

I lost a swarm this year and I must admit that’s the first thing I did. Ordered a new queen and introduced her.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I originally asked the question about what to do with my queenless colony because I know that saving a colony of laying workers can sometimes be a waste of resources. I suppose a hopelessly queenless colony gradually develops more and more laying workers, starting with those in a 'normal' colony which are dealt with by the 'egg police' (Rusty Burlew). I wasn't sure how far down the line my colony was. Not very far, I think.

I've been rearing queens (actively) this year so I do have spare mated queens, and have put one in today. I saw that the abnormal queen cells I mentioned above had been opened by the bees and both consisted of a blob of white material at the top of the cell.

Perhaps I should have used a push-in cage for the queen introduction but time was limited so they're in a flat cage with attendants (I took the queen from her mating hive yesterday), and the flap to the fondant is open. The bees in this colony are 'lively', but I can't say if their frantic interest in the new queen is hostile or not. The pictures show the contents of one of the queen cells, the appearance of one frame, and the response of the bees to the new queen in her cage.

 

[Finman]

Buy a mated queen. Perhaps I already said it. Why it is so difficult.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Yes you did. I'm not sure how you can know that a mated queen that I might buy will be superior to the mated queen that I have reared.

 

[Finman]

Yes you did. I'm not sure how you can know that a mated queen that I might buy will be superior to the mated queen that I have reared.

I can only quess. Your question at the beginning gives quite good picture about your queen handling skills.

 

[Antipodes]

I originally asked the question about what to do with my queenless colony because I know that saving a colony of laying workers can sometimes be a waste of resources. I suppose a hopelessly queenless colony gradually develops more and more laying workers, starting with those in a 'normal' colony which are dealt with by the 'egg police' (Rusty Burlew). I wasn't sure how far down the line my colony was. Not very far, I think.

I've been rearing queens (actively) this year so I do have spare mated queens, and have put one in today. I saw that the abnormal queen cells I mentioned above had been opened by the bees and both consisted of a blob of white material at the top of the cell.

Perhaps I should have used a push-in cage for the queen introduction but time was limited so they're in a flat cage with attendants (I took the queen from her mating hive yesterday), and the flap to the fondant is open. The bees in this colony are 'lively', but I can't say if their frantic interest in the new queen is hostile or not. The pictures show the contents of one of the queen cells, the appearance of one frame, and the response of the bees to the new queen in her cage.

The blob of white material looks like royal jelly to me. Is that what it looked like to you BeeKey? I can't see curled (and stinging abdomens) from the still with the queen in the cage......
I'm unsure if there were laying worker eggs visible yet in this hive? I wonder if a frame of mainly open brood added in at the same time would have helped? Anyhow, do report back please