Reverse A/S - anyone used this

[Sutty]

Reading on another thread (nucleus method) I came across this:

https://thewalrusandthehoneybee.com/swarm-control-by-the-experts/

Interesting read. I was looking at the "reverse A/S" mentioned with a vertical split. Basically when swarm cells are seen put a single brood comb with eggs (no QCs) in a bottom brood box, then a screen board (I presume double) with an entrance above, then the main brood boxes (QCs preferably removed) and any supers. Thus bleeding off foragers and encouraging the queen to increase laying again.

Has anyone here used this?
Possible advantages: no increase in colonies, no need to find the queen if she's elusive, uses less kit.

Any experience of this appreciated!

 

[jeff33]

Yes, I use it. B+ had shared a video and they used it within. Will try to find it on YouTube.

You must put the supers above the bottom
box though not the top box as all your flyers go back to the original box down the bottom and carry on gathering.

My set up is as follows: new BB with 1 frame of bias and empty drawn and undrawn frames, supers, JBM board with entrance facing other way (I put mesh over the Qx so there's no access between the 2. Leave and access and they will swarm), old BB with all the brood and queen. Replace the missing frame with a frame of food as there will only be nurse bees left after a couple of days .
It works, qcs are destroyed by the bees in the top, I don't usually have to do it. It works if you do the cycle for a good 2 weeks. Sometimes I do 3 weeks to be certain. I never use the emergency Qcs made in the bottom as they are poor quality made by older bees.

 

[SWEET]

Reading on another thread (nucleus method) I came across this:

https://thewalrusandthehoneybee.com/swarm-control-by-the-experts/

Interesting read. I was looking at the "reverse A/S" mentioned with a vertical split. Basically when swarm cells are seen put a single brood comb with eggs (no QCs) in a bottom brood box, then a screen board (I presume double) with an entrance above, then the main brood boxes (QCs preferably removed) and any supers. Thus bleeding off foragers and encouraging the queen to increase laying again.

Has anyone here used this?
Possible advantages: no increase in colonies, no need to find the queen if she's elusive, uses less kit.

Any experience of this appreciated!

I've done this with a nuc sat on top of the hive (instead of extra brood boxes) - also works or can fail like every method.

 

[Sutty]

Yes, I use it. B+ had shared a video and they used it within. Will try to find it on YouTube.

You must put the supers above the bottom
box though not the top box as all your flyers go back to the original box down the bottom and carry on gathering.

My set up is as follows: new BB with 1 frame of bias and empty drawn and undrawn frames, supers, JBM board with entrance facing other way (I put mesh over the Qx so there's no access between the 2. Leave and access and they will swarm), old BB with all the brood and queen. Replace the missing frame with a frame of food as there will only be nurse bees left after a couple of days .
It works, qcs are destroyed by the bees in the top, I don't usually have to do it. It works if you do the cycle for a good 2 weeks. Sometimes I do 3 weeks to be certain. I never use the emergency Qcs made in the bottom as they are poor quality made by older bees.

I wondered about using 2 supers as the bottom box with a brood frame hung in it surrounded by super frames (maybe a block on the bottom of the brood frame to prevent wild comb), then you could move filled super frames up after shaking the bees off to give them space to store.

 

[jeff33]

yes, you don't want to do less than 2 weeks before re-uniting and must ensure the flyers can't find their way back to the queen or they will swarm.

 

[jeff33]

I wondered about using 2 supers as the bottom box with a brood frame hung in it surrounded by super frames (maybe a block on the bottom of the brood frame to prevent wild comb), then you could move filled super frames up after shaking the bees off to give them space to store.

would work but seems to be a bit of a faff.

 

[Sutty]

would work but seems to be a bit of a faff.

Avoids extracting deep frames which I find a PITA.

 

[madasafish]

I am afraid it offends my KISS principles.

 

[Sutty]

I am afraid it offends my KISS principles.

Seems pretty simple: 2 supers on a floor with a gap in the middle, drop a brood frame in, add a double screen board then the rest of the hive. Even simpler if there is no need to knock down queen cells. A week later swap some frames if they need the space, and swap the brood frame.

 

[Paul_Ward1]

JBM board with entrance facing other way

Is there a link or description of this please? Thanks

 

[Sutty]

Is there a link or description of this please? Thanks

I think it's a double screen that bees can't pass through, with an entrance above. Hopefully someone will confirm.

 

[jeff33]

I think it's a double screen that bees can't pass through, with an entrance above. Hopefully someone will confirm.

The original one by @jenkinsbrynmair has a Qx to allow bees to pass through. I put mesh over that when I do a vertical split. I am sure JBM has posted photos of these but can't find them. He is tagged to this message so will pick it up...when he gets out of bed

 

[Swarm]

The original one by @jenkinsbrynmair has a Qx to allow bees to pass through. I put mesh over that when I do a vertical split. I am sure JBM has posted photos of these but can't find them. He is tagged to this message so will pick it up...when he gets out of bed

I know a guy who used similar boards over thirty years ago

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is there a link or description of this please? Thanks

There is also a description here:
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/demaree.46464/

 

[ericbeaumont]

Has anyone here used this? ... no need to find the queen

Yes, did this yesterday to a DBB colony in swarm mode; coudn't find the queen, but put into a new bottom box 2 of BIAS, and as the weather had turned, one each of of pollen and honey.

The rest of the 2 BBs went up top over a split board and rear entrance. All QCs removed, nest closed up and gaps filled with foundation.

Will return to find out in which box the Q is working, and go from there. As the weather had worsened this week, they'd already torn down a few QCs. Used a variation last year on a strong colony that had swarmed; worked well.

 

[Paul_Ward1]

View attachment 39563View attachment 39564

There is also a description here:
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/demaree.46464/

Thank you