reusing supers

[jonnybeegood]

I was wondering, as I treated my hives with Apiguard in October & I had left a super on each, if I reuse these supers next year will they be tainted with Apiguard? & if I retreat in spring should I take these supers off before doing so?

 

[Davelin]

Any honey in them may well be, think the supers will be ok if emptied and refilled, but I stand to be corrected.

Personally I wouldn't use apiguard in the spring.

I will be treating with oxalic next month or so, if I need any further treatment next spring/summer I will probably use MAQS.

 

[Amari]

I was wondering, as I treated my hives with Apiguard in October & I had left a super on each, if I reuse these supers next year will they be tainted with Apiguard? & if I retreat in spring should I take these supers off before doing so?

Is the 'super on each' above or below the brood box? Over the last few years many/most folk feed syrup into a super in September then put it below the bb (nadiring is the fashionable term). Advantages are: a shallow below the bb is usually cleared of all stores over winter whereas a shallow above the bb may not be. Also if the shallow is below the bb it is easier to apply oxalic acid to the bb in late December.
However is prob too late now to nadir because of disturbing the colony, also maybe too late for the bees to clear the stores unless they do so in spring.
I hope you have removed the queen excluders.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why would you want to treat again in spring? As the rest - any honey in the supers will be tainted, but if they consume all the honey this winter - the supers will be fine again in spring.

 

[VEG]

Why did you use apiguard with honey supers on?

 

[Arfermo]

Why did you use apiguard with honey supers on?

 

[Heather]

Maybe they left a super of honey on for winter feed.. generous..

 

[Tom Bick]

I leave a part filled or full super on my hives that are single broods. The super goes under the brood box and then removed in the spring. Never noticed any problem with thymol and the wax. I think we all would know about it if it was a problem as it would be compulsory or advised to change all brood frames along with any super frames left on the hive during a thymol treatment each spring. You can treat with thymol in the spring but you will be reducing the time for the fumes have to clear from the hive and the frames to air so probably risking a thymol taste to any spring honey providing it's a hive strong enough to provide a spring crop and if so not to be advised. If it's a weak hive and in need of a varroa treatment don't see why not.

 

[jonnybeegood]

No q excluder on, i left a super on each to give them a good start over winter, its not all about honey for me its about the bees first. I did leave the super above the Bb, i know people put it below now but they never used to. If there is brood in it in spring i will put it below the Bb then with a q excluder above it untill all the brood has gone & one above the Bb for the next super.

 

[Tom Bick]

Better if you simply fit a queen excluder between super and brood box with the super over the brood box, remember the queen below the excluder. This way you won't be exposing valuable brood to the coldest part of the hive and splitting the brood. You will also trap less drones if you have the super over the bb. One final problem as I see it by placing the super under the bb you may find it full of pollen when you come to move it. The brood in the super will all emerge and then the bees will start to fill it with lovely honey.

 

[YorkshireBees]

I'm with Tom.

This year I placed any part filled supers from last season onto the hives a little earlier and the bees cleared them out nicely using or moving the stores down into the BB.
Saved on Spring feeding!

 

[jonnybeegood]

Ok but my thinking was that if i put the super underneath & raked the cappings they would move the honey up into the Bb or the top super? Maybe i will leave it on top then & hope they empty it so i can reuse the frames & they wont then be tainted with thymol?

 

[Swarm]

Too late to consider now.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Better if you simply fit a queen excluder between super and brood box with the super over the brood box, remember the queen below the excluder.

As far as I understand, the problem is – this super will contain a certain amount of syrup fed in autumn.

. The brood in the super will all emerge and then the bees will start to fill it with lovely honey.

… mixing it with syrup (tainted with thymol, probably) That`s not the honey that I would like to get. The same as topic starter, I suppose

This way you won't be exposing valuable brood to the coldest part of the hive and splitting the brood.

Anyone who uses 1 BB for brood, exposes it to the pretty similar conditions IMHO Brood splitting is a bit of a problem though… Not too serious, hopefully.

You will also trap less drones if you have the super over the bb.

Drones trapped for a couple of weeks are also not a big problem IMHO, moreover they`ll get mature at the time of relies in a safety of the hive

One final problem as I see it by placing the super under the bb you may find it full of pollen when you come to move it

The pollen does not contaminate the honey , while syrup does IMHO.
Thus I like the plan of topic starter - as an emergency plan.
Meanwhile I would use a full BB instead of a super for autumn feeding. I would simply place it under the actual BB ( nadir? )
It won’t jeopardize microclimate condition within the hive… In fact it even improves it, as increasing volume of the system we reducing speed of draft in it( as ventilation entries remain of the same size(the mesh flour + bees entry)) making the hive warmer( Providing that our “engine”(the bees) is of the same size also, and horizontal dimensions of the hive are not changed subsequently ).
This way I would get more options to manipulate with the frames, all of the same size and depth. And it would provide plenty of space for a Quinn to lay eggs in the spring…
If the colony becomes small in spring for whatever reason, there is always an option to shrink the hive to 1BB, and use dummy boards if the need arise, treating them accordingly to the issue.
Sory if my understanding is too “newbee” Chears

 

[BeeBeeKa]

I'm with Tom.This year I placed any part filled supers from last season onto the hives a little earlier and the bees cleared them out nicely using or moving the stores down into the BB. Saved on Spring feeding!

May I ask you what do you mean saying “part filled supers”. Was it a cupped honey or not? If not – then the honey got moisture in it. So the bees treated it as a syrup, probably.
Meanwhile If it was a cupped honey… well…I would better eat it instead of bees or sell it. (If it was pure honey)
Did you raked the capping, anyway? And did you create any sort of a gap between BB and super? I`m still afraid that if there is a flow, the bees could start just to top the super up, cup the honey, and I could end up with a full super, not an empty one
Thanks

 

[Tom Bick]

As far as I understand, the problem is – this super will contain a certain amount of syrup fed in autumn.

If any remaining stores left over in the spring are thought to be syrup then the frames can be removed extracted to be replaced or stored until needed for feeding back.

… mixing it with syrup (tainted with thymol, probably) That`s not the honey that I would like to get. The same as topic starter, I suppose

Same reply as above

Anyone who uses 1 BB for brood, exposes it to the pretty similar conditions IMHO Brood splitting is a bit of a problem though… Not too serious, hopefully.

Yes a single standard national bb is a fine balancing line when it comes down to autumn feeding and leaving space for valuable winter bees. That's why a good number of beekeepers, myself included give the bees a full or part full super under the bb. This almost or in most cases ensures you don't have to feed syrup.

Drones trapped for a couple of weeks are also not a big problem IMHO, moreover they`ll get mature at the time of relies in a safety of the hive

You can trap drones in the hive and get away with it but it does stress the bees

The pollen does not contaminate the honey , while syrup does IMHO.

Yes but it is inconvenient having loads of pollen in a super, it's not the end of the world but better if it's in the brood frames

Thus I like the plan of topic starter - as an emergency plan.
Meanwhile I would use a full BB instead of a super for autumn feeding. I would simply place it under the actual BB ( nadir? )
It won’t jeopardize microclimate condition within the hive… In fact it even improves it, as increasing volume of the system we reducing speed of draft in it( as ventilation entries remain of the same size(the mesh flour + bees entry)) making the hive warmer( Providing that our “engine”(the bees) is of the same size also, and horizontal dimensions of the hive are not changed subsequently ).
This way I would get more options to manipulate with the frames, all of the same size and depth. And it would provide plenty of space for a Quinn to lay eggs in the spring…
If the colony becomes small in spring for whatever reason, there is always an option to shrink the hive to 1BB, and use dummy boards if the need arise, treating them accordingly to the issue.
Sory if my understanding is too “newbee” Chears

Dont think the topic was about any kind of emergency. Double brood is a good way to go lots of options and virtually no feeding

 

[jonnybeegood]

Mmm people seem to be replying to everyone elses posts but mine Lol

 

[Tom Bick]

I think most of your posts have been replied to apart from the last two. It's the way of forums enviably other questions arise.

Just noticed you have 14×12 nationals and they don't need a super left on the hive to overwinter as they should have more than enough room in the big brood box.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

I Dont think the topic was about any kind of emergency. Double brood is a good way to go lots of options and virtually no feeding

If TS did not have a spare BB and used a super instead, it`s an emergency plan IMHO

Mmm people seem to be replying to everyone elses posts but mine Lol

It`s better than the ignored topics, like some of mines
Bee happy, you are not in this state alike:

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Just noticed you have 14×12 nationals and they don't need a super left on the hive to overwinter as they should have more than enough room in the big brood box.

Yes, but if the majority of it`s frames was occupied by brood, then there is a need for an extra space for syrup isn’t it? I mean there is no guaranty that the weather will permit a late feeding, when amount of brood is reduced enough for BB to be filled up with syrup. So, personally I would prefer to feed them…let`s say in august (during an outbreak of rainy days, preferably ), using second BB, and when it`s full, I`ll set the third (or super) on in order to harvest honey the rest of the season, If varroa infestation is not in a high level( less then 5 dead mites drops a day?)How is the plan?