Registering hives in the Charente

[Chris58]

Hi, I have been asked by another beekeeper in the Charente where or with whom she has to register her hives. I do not live in that department so I don't know.
As of this year, in France we have to register our hives with the department equivalent of DEFRA, is anyone in the Charente able to give me the address/information about the form she needs for this area?
Many Thanks.

 

[DorsetB]

A while back I had a look at the DEFRA equivalent in the Charente Maritime(17), the GDSA (http://sanitaire-apicole17.org/).

Just had a look for the equivalent GDSA in Haute Vienne(87) but can't find anything. However in the link above you will find the two forms in common use: 1) declaration des ruchers, and 2) deplacement des ruchers as pdfs, which you might want to download and check, other wise I am sure you can contact any of the GDSA offices, and ask for a more specific address or email address.
Hope this helps.

 

[cjhart2]

Hi Chris and Kenni , the address for you friend in Charente ( 16 ) is
GDSA - Logis de la Tourette - 16400 LA COURONNE .
If your friend is going for a NUMAGRIT then i suggest they fill out the CEFRA 13995*01 , the annual return , with a letter including a copy of you passport or id card on the lines of

Objet : Demande de numéro NUMAGRIT

Madame, Monsieur,
Afin d'effectuer ma déclaration de ruchers, j'ai besoin d'un numéro NUMAGRIT.
Par ce courrier, je vous demande un numéro NUMAGRIT .
A cet effet, veuillez trouver ci-joint la copie de mon passeport.
Recevez Madame, Monsieur l'expression de mes salutations distinguées.

 

[DorsetB]

... forgot to mention btw that if she intends to sell honey she will need a No. de SIRET beforehand, otherwise the NUMAGRIT will be sufficient.

 

[MJBee]

On this website under "Reglementation" click on "telechargement de la liste etc" and it gives you the addresses and telephone numbers of the DGS of every Departement in France. It is the website of the Charante Syndicate (Association)

http://david.bernard83.free.fr/rucher/rucher0.htm

 

[DanBee]

Could somebody please give a quick summary of what is required in terms of registration (beekeeper, apiary locations, individual hives), what impact this has on day-to-day beekeeping (including moving colonies, disease inspection), and how it affects other aspects such as the availability & cost of medications, or the beekeeper's sale of honey and other hive produce. Do you see it as good, bad, or indifferent as beekeepers?

I know, just a small question It's just that the concept of registration comes up in the UK from time to time yet few here have direct experience of keeping bees under such a system.

Merci beaucoup.

 

[Chris Luck]

It's simple formalities both registering a hive or hives and for selling honey if less than 200 hives. I've never seen anyone or had any contact other than updating my colonies and where they are located once a year "on line" and declaring my number of hives with my annual tax return. In theory the keeper should make a notification when hives are moved but????? Up to 200 hives you can sell as much honey as you like, it's the hive that is "taxed" not the sales. Over 200 hives and full social charges and taxes are payable, but that's complex as it depends on the type of fiscal structure chosen to operate under.

All the usual "stuff" for treating bees is available for those that want it, I couldn't tell you the cost.

Only AFB is notifiable, otherwise no disease inspections or nosy parkers.

It's really just the French love of having everything a person does recorded, I don't think anyone looks at it, suits me just the way it is.

Chris

 

[DanBee]

Thanks Chris.

So really not an intrusion for anyone under 200 hives, and above that number it's all part of something very much like UK income tax / paye / VAT paperwork, charges, etc.?

 

[Chris Luck]

Just found this if it helps, proper drugs are normally from a vet.

Thymol en cristaux. €36,50 a kilo.

Chris

 

[dclewis]

Just a little bit of additional detail to Chris's response.
An annual declaration of no of hives is required and can be done on line

https://identification.agriculture....riculture.gouv.fr/TeleRuchers/faces/index.jsp

If you have more than 10 hives then income tax is payable, under 10 and no tax return has to be completed.

Over 40 hives and Social charges are payable but no benefits can be obtained

VAT (TVA) is subject to usual turnover rules and this doesn't affect anything other than the big operators, so you cannot claim back Vat nor charge vat until you exceed the threshold.

If you sell or give honey to anyone outside your family then you need to register as a business and get your Siret rather than a numergrin. In applying for the Siret it starts in motion all the paper chase for completing the forms necessary for the income tax and social charges dept.

 

[Chris Luck]

If you have more than 10 hives then income tax is payable, under 10 and no tax return has to be completed.

That used to be the case but since 2010 it's from the first hive.

Depuis 2010, les apiculteurs doivent obligatoirement faire la déclaration de leur rucher chaque année, et ce dès la 1ère ruche.

http://pme.service-public.fr/actualites/breves/declaration-annuelle-ruches-redevient-obligatoire-2010.html?xtor=EPR-140?xtor=EPR-140

Déclaration de détention et d'emplacement de rucher.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/pme/R15642.xhtml

Liste des opérateurs désignés pour l’enregistrement des déclarations de ruches sous format « papier » et pour le dépôt des demandes de NUMAGRIT et/ou de NAPI

http://mesdemarches.agriculture.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/201203Liste_operateurs_enregistrement_cle056a4c.pdf

Chris

 

[dclewis]

I do not disagree that the declaration of the number and placement of hives has to be made annually (as I stated in my previous mail) to your local GDSA (to your place of domicile for your beekeeping business ie if your business is based in Dept 78 and your hives are in Dept 78 or 27 or 75 or anywhere else, then you declare to your GDSA in Dept 78) or on line. And yes, that obligation was reinstated in 2011.

However for income tax I believe that the 'niche fiscal' still exists under the regime du forfait for those with 10 or less hives. 11 hives and over and you pay income tax on every hive. Well that at least is what my centre des impots confirmed to me.

 

[Chris Luck]

Sorry, that's correct, but we should perhaps also be clear that the "tax" is literally only a few euros a year per hive between 10 and 40 and many centre des imports don't actually impose it. I suppose in the UK it would be called a "Duty" payment.

Between 40 and 200 hives that "tax" remains the same with another small payment per hive to MSA, (Chamber of Agriculture which is also responsible for collecting payments for health, pensions and other financial obligations from people that work "on the land").

The important thing to understand is that it isn't a tax on sales and that you can sell as much honey as you can produce.

France eh, don't you love it?

Chris