Re Queening A laying Worker Colony

[Erichalfbee]

Sometimes a fast running virgin may just do it! last year as i had cells, i hatched them out and put one virgin, thats was particularly vigorous and running around on the frames, in to a laying worker colony. She mated and did get the colony queen right but it took a while for the colony to sort out the excess drones and i did give a frame of brood, more so to help correct the shortage of nurse bees and workers in the colony. However it did work.
if you have no other choice, its worth a go!! last resort.com

Thanks for that Richard.
I never considered that at all

 

[Erichalfbee]

Brain wave or not.. if i take the original angry hive to another spot and stick the new nuc on the spot it came from, in theory all the flying bees will head back to the nuc with a new caged Queen and the laying worker will stop in the moved hive, where it will slowly die off. ?

Finman reckons you can do a flying AS
Move brood box away
Give the supers to the flying bees on the original site
Requeen these the next day with your caged queen

 

[Millet]

I wouldn't attempt this. Local bees can be notoriously difficult to requeen to new strain and a queen still in a cage and old bolshy bees flying in to a newly set up nuc....too many unpredictables.
Set up nuc from calm bees and then wait for new queen to be accepted and start laying and nuc building up......then and only then would I think about throwing out the laying workers and letting them repopulate that hive....
To be honest they haven't got that long left to live so are not going to do much good anyway. Dwindle might be the best solution for them.

That is exactly what i am going to do N , i know you told me to write them off but i thought they may have been a glimmer of hope at saving some, however it is not worth the hassle and risk, i mentioned something to Damien today about shaking the angry bees out 10 mile away and he agreed and laughed.
I will not risk the new colony from you or the new Queen with these wasp like bees, onwards and upwards from now on.

 

[Millet]

Finman reckons you can do a flying AS
Move brood box away
Give the supers to the flying bees on the original site
Requeen these the next day with your caged queen

I have not stopped thinking about a way around it Erica and every method has risks that can and should be avoided, i bought one new Queen today that will be in a nuc with lovely nurse bees tomorrow, the angry lot sadly but gladly will be know more soon.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Always amazed at what lengths people will go to save a laying worker colony. Sacrificing brood and queens and management time to save a hopeless cause. Of course, it can be done, but at what cost? In my climate, a saved laying worker colony won't ever build up enough to winter unless frames of brood are given after the new queen has been accepted. Seems a waste.

As I run many hundreds of mating nucs, some of which aren't able to raise a mated queen, laying workers happen often enough. We give them a ripe cell, and more often than not they get that queen mated.

 

[Millet]

Well a quick update and i agree with you Michael hell why would i disagree with you, you know what you are doing in all aspects of Beekeeping, me however hold enough experience in beekeeping to fit on your finger nail. (i'm not sure how big your nails are so let's say your ferrets if you keep any).

Anyway the new queen was introduced today in a cage in a Nuc i made up from mellow bees, and lone behold the laying worker colony has hung fire for now and a queen cell has been made on a test frame i put in from BF, there's still plenty of bees in there but i was glad to shut up shop as they are mental, it's a shame if there numbers deplete as they are onto there second super (a record in this area) but i will let them get on with it and see what becomes of the colony.

Queen in after 1hr 30mins of making a Queenless split 2 frames of brood the rest was made up of stores i had spare.

Here is the Queen cell on the test frame guarded by two angry bees that you do not want to mess with. lol. if this Queen emerges and gets mated it will be a miracle from god from the past five failed attempts.
Fingers crossed things might start running smooth again but i will not hold my breath..

 

[wightbees]

Those bees have trouble written all over them lol. They look like my local rif raf! I'm liking the BF I have right now, so gentle and no smoke needed, a joy to work with I must say.

 

[thibault]

Always amazed at what lengths people will go to save a laying worker colony. Sacrificing brood and queens and management time to save a hopeless cause. Of course, it can be done, but at what cost? In my climate, a saved laying worker colony won't ever build up enough to winter unless frames of brood are given after the new queen has been accepted. Seems a waste.

As I run many hundreds of mating nucs, some of which aren't able to raise a mated queen, laying workers happen often enough. We give them a ripe cell, and more often than not they get that queen mated.

Yes I think tomorrow I am gonna shake them off, virgin queen has disapeared and they are trying to raise a queen, I don't know with what egg as the laying workers were not very active, did not see any eggs lately, that hive has been queenless for nearly a year now, kind of survivors lol, but too much hassle and attempts to save them which failed. (Cost money and time), I have 1 strong hive and 2 small nucs , can I shake them off in front of the 3? Or is it dangerous for the nucs? Any specific advices?

Envoyé de mon SM-J710F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Millet]

Yes I think tomorrow I am gonna shake them off, virgin queen has disapeared and they are trying to raise a queen, I don't know with what egg as the laying workers were not very active, did not see any eggs lately, that hive has been queenless for nearly a year now, kind of survivors lol, but too much hassle and attempts to save them which failed. (Cost money and time), I have 1 strong hive and 2 small nucs , can I shake them off in front of the 3? Or is it dangerous for the nucs? Any specific advices?

Envoyé de mon SM-J710F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[thibault]

Lol, can' t say I have not tried to save them

Envoyé de mon SM-J710F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Beefriendly]

Always amazed at what lengths people will go to save a laying worker colony. Sacrificing brood and queens and management time to save a hopeless cause. .

I think it's often a question of scale and perception of hives. With your 1000's of colonies it's not worth the effort and for most hobbyists it probably isn't either.
But there is a perception of seeing hives as entities when you only have a few (some even name their hives!) rather than units of bees. So they try to save the named hive by by a lot of fannying around as it's perceived as a living being.
I'm sure many will disagree

 

[Millet]

I think it's often a question of scale and perception of hives. With your 1000's of colonies it's not worth the effort and for most hobbyists it probably isn't either.
But there is a perception of seeing hives as entities when you only have a few (some even name their hives!) rather than units of bees. So they try to save the named hive by by a lot of fannying around as it's perceived as a living being.
I'm sure many will disagree

The main reason i was trying to keep this mental colony ticking over for now is they have filled one super and they have started work on a second one

 

[wightbees]

But there making you pay for it Millet

 

[Millet]

But there making you pay for it Millet

That's one way of looking at it lol, however with these mongrels and location i am lucky to get even one super.

 

[maddydog]

As I run many hundreds of mating nucs, some of which aren't able to raise a mated queen, laying workers happen often enough. We give them a ripe cell, and more often than not they get that queen mated.

Very interesting! Do you protect the cells in any way?

Thanks

 

[Millet]

Well its time to check and release the new Queen today but typically we have heavy rain so the big brolly is coming out of the cupboard..

 

[Erichalfbee]

No hurry. If tomorrow is a better day do it then. No point in upsetting the bees

 

[Millet]

No hurry. If tomorrow is a better day do it then. No point in upsetting the bees

The Queen had been in the cage a good length of time Erica before i got her so i wanted her out and free ASAP, it was lashing down above the brolly and when i opened the hive up they where better behaved than my horrible bees on a good day, i think two or three took flight and not once was i checked out.
They was no aggression to the Queen cage so i opened it up and she calmly walked out onto the brood come and stuck her head straight in a cell of honey, the bees in the hive did surround her checking her out and then she disappeared deeper down so fingers crossed all is good.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Very interesting! Do you protect the cells in any way?

Thanks

No