Qx or no Qx?

[Queen Brenda]

Please will you bee- brains sort out a dreadful argument between my husband and I.

We have 3 colonies. 2 are on brood and a half, the 3rd just in a national brood box and we've been feeding fondant all winter to all 3. In the colony on the single brood box, the is a red Cariolan queen, new last year, and the colony was slowish to build up and just kept as a large nuc - no supers.

That hive has been hungry and needing lots of fondant and now feels light to heft. Tomorrow I'm going to add a super with the only 3 frames of drawn out foundation I have in stock, the rest new. I feel that the queen has likely been laying away, using most of the space in the BB so likely V low on stores as no room for both. The husband wants to put a queen excluder between the BB and the super and I think it should be the half of a brood & a half so QX between, and put supers on later. I will obviously continue to feed. Fondant or syrup? Both, even? I feel they have their work cut out feeding themselves, the brood and also drawing out the 7 frames of new foundation.

 

[dn170221]

The weather over here hasn't been THAT warm if warm at all recently. I haven't opened any of my hives yet (other than roof off and heft)
My question is, has it been warm enough to open up where you are, and if so was there brood on many frames. If not warm enough I doubt the queen would be at the stage where she is running out of space to lay, especially as you mention she hadn't laid up well previously.

If goign brood and a half at some stage you would not add a QX

 

[Queen Brenda]

I forgot to mention, SW London, so probably quite a lot of forage and slightly warmer than some places. Pollen and activity for some weeks now.

 

[Cazza]

I forgot to mention, SW London, so probably quite a lot of forage and slightly warmer than some places. Pollen and activity for some weeks now.

Even so, feels very very early to me to be needing the additional space.
Cazza

 

[Erichalfbee]

If it's light it won't be full of brood so you won't need that super....yet.
Wait till you look in.

 

[Queen Brenda]

It's the lack of stores and space for stores that's worrying me. Unless they start storing now we've got some flowers around, trees in blossom etc surely they won't be feeding the larvae on fondant? I was assuming the Q had used most of the brood box for eggs, but maybe not as it's light, as Erica says.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If it's warm look in

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

surely they won't be feeding the larvae on fondant?

Oh yes

 

[Tremyfro]

We did brood and a half last year and found that when we added supers we didn't need a QE at all. The queen stayed below the honey. The half brood had a lovely half moon of brood in it the rest was stores.
I don't think I will use the QE this year either.

 

[B+.]

In the colony on the single brood box, the is a red Cariolan queen, new last year, and the colony was slowish to build up and just kept as a large nuc - no supers.

If your queen is marked according to the international colour system, a 2014 queen should be green. If she really is a red queen, that makes her a 2013 queen.

Carniolans do have a reputation for rapid spring development and shutting down earlier in the autumn. So, as the colony expands rapidly, there is a big demand for food. If that food is available and the climate is mild enough for the bees to forage, it could be that the colony already has become quite large. Do you see a lot of activity? If so, they may need that extra space.

 

[Queen Brenda]

Thanks all for replies. B+ yes, although we bought her in June 14 I think she was an overwintered red. It seems to be as you suggest, they shut up shop early and, yes, quite a bit of activity on warm days, queuing at the entrance,pollen etc. sadly it doesn't look warm enough today, I'll keep the food stocked up.

 

[Amari]

Please will you bee- brains sort out a dreadful argument between my husband and I.
.[/QUOTE

Might be wise to split the apiary into His & Hers.

 

[enrico]

The whole point here is that you are saying it is light when hefted. That means little stores so why are you adding a super? If you are worried about the queen having room to lay, which I find difficult to believe, even in London, then add the super or another bb under the brood box. That will keep all the warmth where any brood is at the moment, give room for them to add stores and move down as required. If they are prolific then you will need more space anyway. In my humble opinion you are four weeks early!
E

 

[B+.]

I think she was an overwintered red......they shut up shop early and, yes, quite a bit of activity on warm days, queuing at the entrance,pollen etc.

In that case, I suggest that you give her plenty of space (or be prepared to relieve her of some brood) as her colony develops . She is a "mature" lady now and it would be a pity if she swarmed.

 

[Finman]

If your queen is marked according to the international colour system, a 2014 queen should be green. If she really is a red queen, that makes her a 2013 queen.

Carniolans do have a reputation for rapid spring development and shutting down earlier in the autumn. .

I know that Carniolan grows earlier than Italians because it has pollen stores after winter. Italian use to eate pollen off in autumn.

When I started to feed pollen patty to Italian hives, their build up was exactly the same as Carniolans'.

What is a big difference is that Carniolans swarms couple of weeks earlier than Italians.

 

[B+.]

In my humble opinion you are four weeks early!
E

A shortage of food is more likely to be the concern at the moment.

 

[B+.]

I know that Carniolan grows earlier than Italians because it has pollen stores after winter. Italian use to eate pollen off in autumn.

We could talk about the relative merits/demerits of a race of bees all day long but this would be here.

 

[einsteinagogo]

I experimented last year, I've always been taught to use a queen excluder, and understand the merits of using a queen excluder or not.

My Observation

So last season (2014) I experimented, and did not use a queen excluder on of of my 2 overwintered nucs from 2013 (with red 2013 queen), I had two nucs, and the queens were sisters, not very scientific, but, one colony got up to five supers of capped honey with no queen excluder, and the other with excluder only 2.

What surprised me, was the queen did not lay in the supers, so this year, I may try this experiment again.

 

[Finman]

We could talk about the relative merits/demerits of a race of bees all day long but this would be here.

I have 10 years experience about Carniolans and it is enough. And there are tens of Italian strains.
But I have nowadays in my surroundings free Carniolan colonies, perhaps in empty farm houses. Strongest hives seem to be Italian & Carniolan hybrids.

 

[Finman]

.
I have nursd my hives without QE 50 years.

But there is one alternative more. Quite many nurse hives so in Finland that hives may lay freely to produce maximum amout of brood in first part of summer, and then for late yield they put excluder, that they can rob all honey at the end of season. Many professionals do this way.