Question on QX when crown board above super..

[herefordshirehoney]

Rightly or wrongly i'm putting a poly super on tonight on both my hives, as well as taking off the poly patty as plenty is coming in. I don't want to put them directly. As they are not full up to brooding power yet it is a little early than id like. Why am I bothering doing this now? Rightly or wrongly I know the OSR is about to flower and I dont want to get caught out with the bees not liking the smell, etc.

My question is - do I:
1. Brood Box, QX, Crownboard (has two holes in can take the 1 bee clearer off), Super (so they can use it if they need to also lets smell through so they take to it easier).
2. Brood Box, QX, 2 Sheets of newspaper with a few slashes then super.

My preference is 1 but not sure if the crownboard holes are big enough above the qx, my gut would say 2 is the better option out of the two.

It's worth noting that it's all undrawn foundation, I do have some 1:1 I made up a few weeks ago that's been in the car since looked at it this morning and seems clear with no signs of turning, but probably best not adding this at the same time as I dont want it to be stored.

No doubt people will add other methods but I have my car loaded with the equipment for tonight, only need to go get a telegraph if I go down the newspaper route.

I'm not worried to much about the heat issue as I run full poly hives, so they wont have to work too much more (bear in mind im monitoring this with arnia bee hive monitors and will move one of the temp sensors to super to check on it).

Forgot to say if I do no 1, i'll remove the crownboard as soon as I notice a flow.

Thanks.

 

[Finman]

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Rightly or wrongly i'm putting a poly super on tonight on both my hives, as well as taking off the poly patty as plenty is coming in. .

makes no sense and you want to talk about that????

If you want to ruin the hive build up, follow him!!!

And s h a k e the bees!!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw[/ame]
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[herefordshirehoney]

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makes no sense and you want to talk about that????

If you want to ruin the hive build up, follow him!!!

And s h a k e the bees!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw
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Finman - with all due respect why would a recently retired bee inspector say put a super on above the crownboard at the end march so the bees get used to smell etc (bear in mind we are a month behind at the moment).

 

[Finman]

Finman - with all due respect why would a recently retired bee inspector say put a super on above the crownboard at the end march so the bees get used to smell etc (bear in mind we are a month behind at the moment).

bees get used to smell etc ....

Never heard that.

I know your spring and some beekeepers had brood in their hives and some did not.

1) Those hives, which dis not had brood, it takes 4 weeks that new bees start to emerge. It is then the last half of May.

2) Those hives which had 5 frames and no brood it take far to June that they occupye their one box.

3) If the hive had 3 frames capped brood and when they emerge, it fills one box, abut at same time the old bees have died after this miserable long spring.
It takes time before the hive start to enlarge.

If you do not know, when to put more space to the colony, put it under the brood box.

Excluder is not a law of nature. It is only a thing.
If you throw a foundations box over the hive, it may take a a month that bees are able to occupye it.

Like in that pollen store issue, put the new room under the brood. Then bees can store pollen in it.

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What a heck you play with your excluders. It is sure that one box hive cannot forage surpluss honey in spring.

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[herefordshirehoney]

Ok thanks for the advice understand what you are saying about brood emergerance. The guy saying it was very well respected hence why I took it fully on board and based it in my plans (im sure ive read some beekeepers put there supers on above the crownboard before too unless im imagining it!).

We do have at least 2 fields of OSR which *could* start to flower at any stage and we are just about getting yield temperatures now but not at night which I think is the key for OSR, but they should be lots of pollen from it and still lots coming in from other sources. Bear in mind if it does I really want to get this foundation drawn with young bees being wax makers not long after. They have plenty of food at the moment.

I cant see any benefit putting the box under if its undrawn foundation as you cant even put a feeder on with 1:1. I think I may just do a quick look tonight and check again in a week to see what I do from there.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Finman - with all due respect why would a recently retired bee inspector say put a super on above the crownboard at the end march so the bees get used to smell etc (bear in mind we are a month behind at the moment).

I agree with this entirely.......but go poo-pooed for posting it last week on the forum!

 

[herefordshirehoney]

I agree with this entirely.......but go poo-pooed for posting it last week on the forum!

What would you do? The part that I was concerned about was the QX as he didn't meantion that nor did the 40 ppl in the room ask inc me.

 

[beeno]

Hi herefordshirehoney,
Now we are talking. I am very pleased with my bees in my overwintered PH. They do seem to take housekeeping seriously. Clean combs and don't produce more brood than they can feed, so some stores. Three large frames of capped brood and some combs just used for stores. Lots of bees 7-8 seams and two brood frames emerging within next five days. I am planning to naidir them initially as they are on top bars to give foragers more space and easy access for nursebees to build comb. I am presently letting them finished scraps of left over fondant, but was not initially going to put any 1:1 in as my other hives have not taken much and did not want to make PH damp. Any comments?

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Hi herefordshirehoney,
Now we are talking. I am very pleased with my bees in my overwintered PH. They do seem to take housekeeping seriously. Clean combs and don't produce more brood than they can feed, so some stores. Three large frames of capped brood and some combs just used for stores. Lots of bees 7-8 seams and two brood frames emerging within next five days. I am planning to naidir them initially as they are on top bars to give foragers more space and easy access for nursebees to build comb. I am presently letting them finished scraps of left over fondant, but was not initially going to put any 1:1 in as my other hives have not taken much and did not want to make PH damp. Any comments?

Hi beeno,

Im in a similar situation as you, lots of seams of bee's and lots of pollen now being stored still if anything you are probably ahead of me brood wise. With so many choices i'm trying to take the best of what I read here, research and get told at my association. Its hard though as you do get shot down if you say something someone else doesnt agree with!

Interesting on the 500hz charts from the arnia bee hive monitors suggest they have been very busy the last few days compared to what they've been doing.

I personally didnt want to put any 1:1 as I have lots of stores left when I checked. The PH shouldnt be that damp, but when it does warm up I may give them the 1:1 when they have a good few frames of brood hatched all depends whats coming in.

As for me I think i'm just gonna look quickly tonight and check stores and delay any plans for a week or so.

Choices choices!

 

[itma]

If you have a brand new super, with all new frames and foundation, my suggestion would be to put it under the BB for a week or two, so that it doesn't seem quite so "new" to the bees when you move it above.
They probably won't draw the new frames while underneath, unless there is a really good flow. If they do, then consider it a bonus, but shift it up before there is any brood laid in it (to keep your combs unsullied).


If you are using hoffmans in the brood, you might try *briefly* swapping one or two into the brood chamber, to get the bees started drawing them. (Ideally you'd be removing empty drawn comb, but if its stores, as long as they have plenty, that's no harm.


I would put your QX away for a while.
They need to draw the shallow frames before they are of any interest whatsoever to HMQ.
When the shallow box does go on top, you should give them unobstructed access for a week or so, before putting in the QX.
// Note that this applies ONLY to the "no drawn comb" situation!


I think that the idea of "super above an open-hole crownboard" is something that is included in Inspector training, supposedly as a way of dealing with newbs who wouldn't recognise when the super was needed. But really, it doesn't help with getting the new frames drawn, ready for use -- and that is the important (and occasionally reluctant) part.
I'm not sure that it is good advice for the interested and attentive hobby beek.
Better IMHO to get some frames drawn in the brood (so you can 'seed' the super) or at least to put the brand new box underneath for a couple of weeks.

 

[itma]

Hi herefordshirehoney,
Now we are talking. I am very pleased with my bees in my overwintered PH. ... Three large frames of capped brood and some combs just used for stores. Lots of bees 7-8 seams ...

... if anything you are probably ahead of me brood wise. ...

HH, with less than 3 frames of brood it is too early to put on a super.

But that means you have plenty of time to get prepared (as per my previous post), and hopefully get a couple of shallow frames drawn.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Thanks itma very good explication to justify me putting it under now (was concerned about no QX but you've answered that). The brood is all fully drawn last year but because it was end of july I got the nuc I didnt get any supers on before winter preps.

I had again mixture of stores brood and pollen and a good 8-10 seams of bees possible more. I do need to replace a few frames in the brood with new foundation but will wait to later in the season (warped frames that I didnt notice).

Its weird as he's said it a few times, the same guy teaches does the beginner course I went on last year and said it then too.

 

[itma]

... The brood is all fully drawn last year ... I do need to replace a few frames in the brood with new foundation but will wait to later in the season (warped frames that I didnt notice). ...

My suggestion was that IF you are putting hoffman-spaced shallow frames in the 'super', that you should, temporarily, swap a couple into the brood box, to get them drawn. Once started drawing them, get them out and save them to go onto the hive in the super.

Having even a frame or two, even partially, drawn will make the super much more 'friendly' and the other frames will then be drawn much more readily.


/And a PS, better to get your brood frames sorted before putting on the crop super(s).

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Sorry misread that thanks for the clarification - how quick will they need to be removed? - Actually scrap that realise this is how long is a peace of string question

 

[itma]

Sorry misread that thanks for the clarification - how quick will they need to be removed?

Depends what the state of play might be and even where in the BB you decide to put them (my suggestion, between brood and stores).
Hopefully less than a week ...

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Great thanks my new plan of action is:

Add super to both hives at the bottom taking two frames new super & foundation and replacing some frames in bb box (will have choose carefully, even if i can only do one frame, should have enough stores to rob 1-2 for a week though).

 

[drstitson]

what exactly is the smell that the bees need getting used to? or is it lack of their smell.

BUT bees need warmth to draw comb so although agree that the safety net approach for newbies might be a good idea so that not caught out by a sudden heavy flow eg unknown local OSR crop probably not best practice or most efficient for any purpose.

somewhere at apiary to store super and made up frames i suppose.

as finman says colonies will be well behind build up wise.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Excellent advice itma took off 1 frame of stores off each hive and replaced with fresh super foundation didn't feel comfortable taking two frames from them as there was fresh nectar or uncapped stores (didn't check with shake test).

Did make a schoolboy error though in on my poly super for the one hive I forgot to put the plastic rails on and didn't notice till I was deep in it. Went back this morning to resolve it and had really really quick peak and they've pulled the foundation in this hive 30-40% already. May need to go back tomorrow! Think ill replacing with new sheet of deep as they were the original nuc frames.

 

[Finman]

.
I looked London's forecast and next 5 days no day temp goes over 15C.
Nights are cold 5C.
Rain during 3 days.

Foundation box over brood box seems like catastrophe.

And open mesfloor under brood?
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[herefordshirehoney]

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I looked London's forecast and next 5 days no day temp goes over 15C.
Nights are cold 5C.
Rain during 3 days.

Foundation box over brood box seems like catastrophe.

And open mesfloor under brood?
.

Foundation box was under brood box .