Question about double brood

[Simon88]

I got a 5 frame nuc in June which has grown and drawn out all 11 frames of a national brood box. I have been feeding them sugar syrup while they were drawing the frames out.

Is it too late in the season to provide a second brood box? Would they draw the frames out and should I continue to provide sugar syrup while they are doing this?

 

[Boston Bees]

How many of the frames are (mostly or entirely) brood, and how many are stores?

 

[enrico]

May I ask why you would want to? I would suggest you stop feeding and add a super if there is any sort of a flow on. Remember bees reach a finite amount in a hive. Eventually, as many will be dying, emerging, as eggs that are being laid so you can't just make the hive bigger and bigger. It depends solely on the lay rate of the queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

May I ask why you would want to? I would suggest you stop feeding and add a super

I suspect the brood frames are jam packed with sugar syrup 'honey' which they will quickly shift up to the super.

 

[enrico]

I suspect the brood frames are jam packed with sugar syrup 'honey' which they will quickly shift up to the super.

Yep, probably. I am a bit confused with the post! Need more info as usual!

 

[Simon88]

Apologies for not replying sooner but I wanted to inspect the hive prior to posting again so I had more information.

I inspected it today and found two new queens. The original queen is nowhere to be found. There is capped worker and drone brood visible but no larvae.

The beekeeper I purchased the nuc from said it would be useful to plan to run these colonies on double brood boxes (For BS National Colonies) as the queens laying patterns are quite extensive and they make strong colonies. That is why I was looking to add a second brood.

They had just about drawn all the frames out so I was going to add the second brood box.

However I am not sure what the next steps should be now?

Can they swarm in their first season? There was plenty of bees as shown the photos. The queen was clipped so it would not be able to lead a swarm very far I don't think.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I inspected it today and found two new queens. The original queen is nowhere to be found. There is capped worker and drone brood visible but no larvae.

New queen(s) ? you sure? and two!? the last photo is a frame full of sugar stores. The second photo is an emerged Queen cell.
I think they've swarmed as they run out of space/stores bound.

 

[Ian123]

Exactly what jenks said, those frames have a lot of bees and look pretty rammed did you carry out any inspections after purchasing. If there’s a virgin in there close up and leave alone. Chances are you won’t be needing to add another box this season, just try to ensure a little space for the queen to lay.

 

[Simon88]

I have been inspecting every 10 days but I unfortunately missed a week out so it would have been approx. 17 days since last inspection. I was thinking the same that its rammed with bees which is why I was wanting to add more space. Could you please advise how I can provide more space for the queen? This is my only hive, how will the queen mate? Can the queen mate with drones from its own colony?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The queen will fly out to a drone congregating area to mate, no need for you to interfere, looking at those frames, that box is not rammed with bees, especially now as a lot have gone with the prime swarm (they either went with the old queen if she wasn't clipped or will go with the first virgin queen that emerged if the original queen was clipped and crashed and burned with the first swarm attempt.) it will also be a while before you have any fresh bees in that hive so the numbers will also fall as the bees die off.
Whatever you do, stop feeding.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I stopped weekly inspections a while ago.
Did you buy a nuc on 3 year old comb?
Looks like they have swarmed,

 

[Patrick1]

This would be a good post for the new beekeepers to read, it raises good points and lessons, nucs with new vigorous queens need to be inspected !

 

[REDWOOD]

7 day inspections, sooner not later if possible

 

[Erichalfbee]

I might be tempted....as a new beekeeper to take that last comb for myself and put a frame of foundation in the middle
At least you'll have a taste of honey.
That's a lovely capped frame

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

At least you'll have a taste of honey.
That's a lovely capped frame

As the OP has been constantly feeding since June, it will be just like tresco honey - mostly sugar syrup

 

[Ian123]

Looking closely at those darker frames 1 has sealed brood and some appear to be empty I’d suggest the queen will find space. I’d be inclined to close up and leave for a week or 2. They can scrape the odd frame or juggle empty 1s to the edge of new brood area later.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As the OP has been constantly feeding since June, it will be just like tresco honey - mostly sugar syrup

oops....yes you're right

 

[drex]

I understand you are new to the craft, however I repeat what I often say on here
Feeding is a balancing act
You can have too much of a good thing.
several lessons you have learned already.
They likely have a virgin in there so I would leave alone for 2-3 weeks. I would also think about varroa treatment while they have the least amount of brood. ( I will treat al mine later this month - but for you this is an opportunity not to be missed)
It will then be time to think about pre winter preps.
Do not be discouraged. Enjoy your beekeeping. I still make mistakes too.

 

[user 819]

No derision on my part but this is a typical hive of a newbie who has little knowledge of a new craft or input of a very good mentor. But repeats what other posters have said.

Over feeding has led to an increase in egg laying as feed is plentiful, this overfeed may have also led to frame clogging with ripened sugar syrup not to be confused with ripened nectar in to honey. To a point naturally the Q may not lay so much if the forage isn't great, by continually feeding one has created a very false heavy forage flow.
The hive will have swarmed hence the empty QC, though the hive may still look just as full with bees to the untrained eye it looks no different.

 

[user 819]

At this time of year going to DB is not required for a colony and esp one that has swarmed.
Depending when the new Q emerged it may be 3 - 4 weeks before you see eggs being laid so hive density will diminish as foragers dies off.
The old Q will be lost nearby on the ground with a small cluster or will possibly have returned to the hive and clustered underneath the hive with a good part of the swarm (have you looked ?).

How many frames of stores like the nice sugar sealed one ?