Question about a Swarm and Queen Cells

[Luka22]

We have collected a swarm some weeks ago. The person had only 2 Hives and already 2 swarms, so it could have been a Cast Swarm. Anyway, we saw the Queen in front of the Hive before they walked in, but since then we have never seen her again. I am not 100% sure but I think it was about 2 weeks before we saw finally eggs last weekend.

I was very pleased till I realised that in some cells there was multiple eggs on the bottom. The next frame I took out showed the start of a Queen cell and in the end I found about 8-10 possible starts of a Queen cell. Some of them had an egg in it, some had 3 eggs in it. I checked again today and in 1 QC there is a big Larvae, but I could not see any Royal Jelly. I have to admit that I normally see small Larvae when I see the Royal Jelly, so I am not sure when the Larvae is big if there would be any left to see.... but anyway, there are still eggs in the Hive and Larvae. There also also still cells with multiple eggs. Some of the QC have been build further, but most are positioned in a way that I can not see inside.

So what have I got? I thought about a Laying Worker, when I saw the multiple eggs, but a LW would not lay an egg in a QC I assume. So, is there a Queen ? If so than she is great in hiding. We saw her in between thousands of Bees outside but not anywhere inside? And if she is there, why multiple eggs? Do they try a Supersedure because of that? Shall we now just wait and see what they do? Any advice appreciated.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

We have collected a swarm some weeks ago. The person had only 2 Hives and already 2 swarms, so it could have been a Cast Swarm. Anyway, we saw the Queen in front of the Hive before they walked in, but since then we have never seen her again. I am not 100% sure but I think it was about 2 weeks before we saw finally eggs last weekend.

I was very pleased till I realised that in some cells there was multiple eggs on the bottom. The next frame I took out showed the start of a Queen cell and in the end I found about 8-10 possible starts of a Queen cell. Some of them had an egg in it, some had 3 eggs in it. I checked again today and in 1 QC there is a big Larvae, but I could not see any Royal Jelly. I have to admit that I normally see small Larvae when I see the Royal Jelly, so I am not sure when the Larvae is big if there would be any left to see.... but anyway, there are still eggs in the Hive and Larvae. There also also still cells with multiple eggs. Some of the QC have been build further, but most are positioned in a way that I can not see inside.

So what have I got? I thought about a Laying Worker, when I saw the multiple eggs, but a LW would not lay an egg in a QC I assume. So, is there a Queen ? If so than she is great in hiding. We saw her in between thousands of Bees outside but not anywhere inside? And if she is there, why multiple eggs? Do they try a Supersedure because of that? Shall we now just wait and see what they do? Any advice appreciated.

Your profile says you currently run 18 hives so I can only think you have plenty of beekeeping knowledge. That said I offer a few ponderings.
Was the queen you saw unmarked? I'd guess so and further ponder she would be a virgin so until she had been out and returned mated the bees would possibly be unhappy with her.
That might well be relevant to the queen cup/charged cell/larva situation.
A young recently mated queen starting to lay can have a traumatic few days and it's been reported that multiple eggs "at the bottom of the cell" is not uncommon.
A worker could lay if there was a lack of queen substance in the hive to suppress her ovaries but having a shorter abdomen she (or they) would deposit eggs on the sidewall of the cell.
A couple of days more isn't going to break the bank but as insurance you could tear down all but the best queen cell, recheck for more eggs in a suitable pattern and distribution then decide if you have a viable colony and what you do with the queen cells you saved.
That would be my approach anyway

 

[Hivemaker.]

So what have I got?

Laying workers.

 

[Goran]

In a pic bellow: laying workers qcells.....

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=523&pictureid=2791

 

[Luka22]

Your profile says you currently run 18 hives so I can only think you have plenty of beekeeping knowledge. That said I offer a few ponderings.
Was the queen you saw unmarked? I'd guess so and further ponder she would be a virgin so until she had been out and returned mated the bees would possibly be unhappy with her.
That might well be relevant to the queen cup/charged cell/larva situation.
A young recently mated queen starting to lay can have a traumatic few days and it's been reported that multiple eggs "at the bottom of the cell" is not uncommon.
A worker could lay if there was a lack of queen substance in the hive to suppress her ovaries but having a shorter abdomen she (or they) would deposit eggs on the sidewall of the cell.
A couple of days more isn't going to break the bank but as insurance you could tear down all but the best queen cell, recheck for more eggs in a suitable pattern and distribution then decide if you have a viable colony and what you do with the queen cells you saved.
That would be my approach anyway

Yes I have a few Hives, but I would never say that I got all the Beekeeping knowledge of the world. There is always more to learn and I am always keen to hear other peoples experience or feedback.

You are right, she was not marked and yes, I assumed that she was a virgin queen, because I assumed that it was a cast swarm, so I did not panic that she was not laying in the beginning, because I assumed that she still had to be mated. I am also aware that
a laying worker normally lays on the side of the cell, but saying that, I have seen a Laying worker laying on the bottom of the cell, so nothing is impossible. What I have not seen before is a Queen Cell with 3 eggs in it. I am also wondering why Queen Cells, if she is actually laying.... if it is her.... but then... would a laying worker lay in a Queen Cell... I obviously assumed that a swarm with a now freshly mated Queen is now just happy to settle down instead of building Queen Cells and starting the whole process again. I will wait another 2 days and check again and this time I will not close the Hive till I have found her. I normally always spot the Queen that's something else which really irritated me...

I just hope it's not a laying worker.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Yes I have a few Hives, but I would never say that I got all the Beekeeping knowledge of the world. There is always more to learn and I am always keen to hear other peoples experience or feedback.

You are right, she was not marked and yes, I assumed that she was a virgin queen, because I assumed that it was a cast swarm, so I did not panic that she was not laying in the beginning, because I assumed that she still had to be mated. I am also aware that
a laying worker normally lays on the side of the cell, but saying that, I have seen a Laying worker laying on the bottom of the cell, so nothing is impossible. What I have not seen before is a Queen Cell with 3 eggs in it. I am also wondering why Queen Cells, if she is actually laying.... if it is her.... but then... would a laying worker lay in a Queen Cell... I obviously assumed that a swarm with a now freshly mated Queen is now just happy to settle down instead of building Queen Cells and starting the whole process again. I will wait another 2 days and check again and this time I will not close the Hive till I have found her. I normally always spot the Queen that's something else which really irritated me...

I just hope it's not a laying worker.

Seems sensible to me and I hope it isn't a laying workers problem, however if it is then it's going to be bad news for your friend

 

[Finman]

.
Nothing bad in laying workers. It is a result that hive has no queen.