Queens: to clip or not? that is the question.

[mbc]

Cobblers .... I think wing clipping is a matter of how you FEEL about clipping a queens wings and has nothing to do with the ability to find her and do it .......

Sometimes, maybe, sometimes not.
I think there would be a lot more clipped queens about if every beekeeper had the confidence to pick up a queen and manipulate her. On the other hand, I too know of many extremely accomplished beekeepers who are quite capable, but choose not to clip their queens.
Its nether here nor there to me really, but I do think reading opinions from either end of the spectrum is informative and shouldnt be discouraged on the forum

 

[Teemore]

Strangely, I can actually see reason in Keith's comments. Naked aggression on Keith's part? I think not. Hard earned wisdom? Yes.
The decision to clip a queen's wings or not is entirely the decision of the beekeeper but where bees are kept in an environment with near neighbours, I consider it is an integral and responsible part of swarm management (I think the term "swarm control" a misnomer). Only recently I learned of a beekeeper deciding to stop beekeeping after a swarm from one of his excessively bad-tempered colonies took up residence in his aged mother's loft, entering and exiting the loft just above her back door... Leaving aside the temperament of the colony and the impact of that upon his inspections, had the queen been clipped, he would have had more time to identify that the colony was about to swarm. Had he acted upon received advice last year, the colony (and its near neighbours) would have been requeened some time ago and there would have been assistance to do so.

It is a very sad fact that many beekeepers cannot find queens and I know of a number of instances where "experts" have clipped queens and left them crushed and lifeless on the comb after their demonstration.
Keith essentially makes two points. One, that clipping queens helps in swarm management and Two, that some beekeepers don't clip queens because they are unable to do so. I would add to that, (as pargyle appears to indicate) some beekeepers chose not to clip queens wings.

 

[mbc]

Naked aggression on Keith's part? I think not. Hard earned wisdom? Yes.

 

[Stiffy]

I clip my queens as I value my bees too much to risk losing them because I have missed a q cell at the last inspection, it happens. I also recognise that the general public does not see a swarm in the same manner as I do and mostly find them frightening.
I regularly pick up swarms at my apiary sites with obviously unclipped queens. Long may it continue, as other peoples methods, right or wrong enables me to get more bees which I can then re-queen with my own (clipped) queens and either increase my stock or pass on to other new beeks.

 

[rolande]

Strangely, I can actually see reason in Keith's comments. Naked aggression on Keith's part? I think not. Hard earned wisdom? Yes. ........

Keith essentially makes two points. One, that clipping queens helps in swarm management and Two, that some beekeepers don't clip queens because they are unable to do so. I would add to that, (as pargyle appears to indicate) some beekeepers chose not to clip queens wings.

Then perhaps that's what he should have written instead of

what i hear is that you are not capable of finding a queen and if you are and mark her only they you are incapale or too scared to clip her.

We can't always know what people actually mean if it's different to what they write.

 

[rolande]

I deleted the last part of my previous post as I made the foolish error of getting two threads mixed up, I actually thought that this thread showed the great photo's of Keith clipping a queen. Plainly it doesn't. My now deleted comment referred to the fact that I think those pictures are excellent and that they should be looked at by anyone who's not yet taken the plunge and started clipping but feels that they would like to do so.

 

[Teemore]

Then perhaps that's what he should have written instead of



We can't always know what people actually mean if it's different to what they write.

Sometimes people only see what they want to.

Without picking a fight rolande, you are now asking me to put words in Keith's mouth! I have read the same post as everyone else and I have set out my understanding of his comments. Point made.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Now see, I don't clip mine because I have them in my garden with neighbours around. My reasoning is that there will be more local disturbance by the bees milling about longer and closer because the Queen isn't around which will disturb the neighbours more; whereas if the Q can fly they will go and settle quicker somewhere, hopefully high up (yeah I know!) before finding a home or I can get them if close by. I'm not doing it so the problem goes away to further then my immediate neighbours but I do think there will be less disturbance.

I do hasten to add I do all I can to prevent swarming as I know it causes inconvenience and fear

Interesting. Check out MargaretElisabeth here http://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=414133&postcount=11596

 

[Stiffy]

Just imagine if the irate neighbour was descended upon by half a hive of bees! He would no doubt be calling the police or darling Owen P instead of bee inspector
Me thinks it's time to move them to somewhere else Margaret ?
S

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Yes, having lost a swarm in a suburban setting I see that argument (will check my loft!) keith pierce, I find your naked aggression unreasoned and so less persuasive.

"Naked Aggression" I must have missed that. I only saw reasoned argument.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Just imagine if the irate neighbour was descended upon by half a hive of bees! He would no doubt be calling the police or darling Owen P instead of bee inspector
Me thinks it's time to move them to somewhere else Margaret ?
S

He was not descended on by any of them as far as I could see. they were high in the air. His hedge starts two feet above my ground and rises to eight feet above it, as like many neighbours' on The Hill he raised and leveled his back yard, so that my garden is now more of a sump than it was before. There was nothing to interest the bees in his back yard or garden as he had the trees chopped down. There were just a lot of bees flying around quite high up in the air until they realized the most important one was not with them but on the hive in a cluster. The ignorance and fear made him irate enough to lie about it having been the same last year. after I went around to give him honey which he refused he lit a BBQ at the other side of the hedge, I did not smell any food cooking.

 

[keith pierce]

here is another pet hate of mine. each year I run several open days on bee breeding where we demonstrate most aspects of queen rearing including practical sessions on grafting, incubators, Apideas, nuc production ,colony and queen assessment.
I clearly state that it is not a practical beekeeping session, but is solely geared towards queen rearing and the further development and improvement of our dark native Irish honeybees.
I had one beekeeper turn up last year who was 9 years in beekeeping and has never found a queen.
What was going through his head when he was turning up to queen rearing.
I know what was going through mine.

 

[Stiffy]

He was not descended on by any of them as far as I could see. they were high in the air. His hedge starts two feet above my ground and rises to eight feet above it, as like many neighbours' on The Hill he raised and leveled his back yard, so that my garden is now more of a sump than it was before. There was nothing to interest the bees in his back yard or garden as he had the trees chopped down. There were just a lot of bees flying around quite high up in the air until they realized the most important one was not with them but on the hive in a cluster. The ignorance and fear made him irate enough to lie about it having been the same last year. after I went around to give him honey which he refused he lit a BBQ at the other side of the hedge, I did not smell any food cooking.

I didn't mean it to say that he was 'descended' on by any of yours, should have said his property, just trying to imagine him if the bees had swarmed and 'descended on his property.
I don't think he is being very reasonable as it sounds like you tried your best to diffuse the situation.
S

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Hawklord]

I've always been worried about picking a queen up and clipping her, but after a trial run with a drone today, I've managed to do my first queen. I can't see what the fuss is about and wish I'd started doing it sooner.

 

[Dishmop]

When I had a clipped queen in my obs hive they swarmed twice but I found her once and the bees found her the second time trying to climb up the wall in the direction of the hive.

This is quite a good discusson really, considering how many people can never find the queen to start with..

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
I am in my third year of beekeeping and pleased to say all my queens are marked, bar one who is too young, just started laying. As people have said on the forum it is an acquired skill which it takes time to develop. Now, that I am able to find my queens I have the choice as to whether I should clip them or not. I am not inclined to do so, as I consider a swarm hanging in a tree a beautiful sight of nature. I am, however, lucky enough to live in an area where people are interested in bees and mine so far has not inconvenienced anyone else but the beekeeping family itself. If I were a commercial guy then that is a totally different matter!