Queenless or Apiguard reaction?

[BillyGoat]

Checked my main hive saturday and found zero brood, eggs, lavae and lots of empty brood space. Hadn't checked the brood frames for a few weeks (6) due to holidays and extracting - and stupidly thinking I would be non-interventionist as they were bringing in pollen and nectar.
Wouldn't have guessed they were Q- as no change in behaviour etc. and I did not see a QC anywhere on the frames and no sign of a Queen.
Hive is on second week of Apiguard treatment.
I put in a test frame from another hive with sealed brood and eggs to find out if Q-. Went back to check this morning and found the frame had been cleaned up - no sign of brood (all hatched?) and no sign of any eggs, sealed cells or lavae. And still no sign of the Queen.

Questions:
1. Has the Apiguard prompted them to trash the whole brood nest?

2. Since there is no brood in the hive I guess I don't have to bother about the second Apiguard pack?

3. Suggestions as to how to proceed with the Q +/- situation.

Thanks for any advice you can offer

Billy

 

[Eyeman]

Since there is no brood in the hive I guess I don't have to bother about the second Apiguard pack?

I suppose that is the only saving grace. May want to give them a quick icing sugar dusting to make sure most mites on bees are knocked off.
Apiguard will do this- it can even result in your bees absconding- so all thats left is an empty hive!
As you didn't check it was Q+ before treatment it is possible that you may have lost a swarm before starting treatment and the start of apiguard treatment put them off rearing QC's- just a guess.
You may get a surprise now you have stopped apiguard and find that the hive is queen right in 1-2 weeks. I would feed them well and keep fingers crossed.

 

[SimonB]

you may have lost a swarm before starting treatment and the start of apiguard treatment put them off rearing QC's

Can you explain what you mean by this, it goes against what I understand is the normal swarming process so am curious to know if there is a gap in my knowledge. Shouldn't queen cells have been sealed by that point?


As for queen possibly stopping laying during treatment, it happened to me. I terminated treatment about 5 days early as all the Apiguard had been removed and drop count was < 10. 5 days later I inspected and had eggs and larva. Not saying the same has happened to you but definitely a possibility.

 

[MuswellMetro]

there is another thread on here that the suggest the workers start brood killing under apiguard by some bees but hopefully yours is just the smell stopping Q laying

follow simonB if you are worried and your count is low

 

[Eyeman]

Can you explain what you mean by this, it goes against what I understand is the normal swarming process so am curious to know if there is a gap in my knowledge. Shouldn't queen cells have been sealed by that point?

You are quite right. Sorry silly suggestion on my part (I did say it was only a guess!). Should have said "Apiguard may have affected any emerging QC's after the swarm making the hive Q-". Still an unlikely explanation.
Need to make sure I have a cup of coffee before posting in the mornings.
Alec

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Billy Goat,
I don't quite understand your logic. You want to be non-interventionins but take the honey and then don't replace it and leave the colony to fend for itself - maybe with no income. Then to purely non-interventionist, you put in Apiguard. ?
(Sorry this seems quite agressive - it's not supposed to be).
Apiguard may have caused a problem, maybe not.
When did you put the test frame in? it needed to have eggs or small larvae for the bees to be able to produce a queencell so was it more than 3 weeks ago?
If there is an area where brood 'should' be then the queen is probably there otherwise it will be filled with stores unless the bees are very short.
What amount of stores are there in the hive?

 

[BillyGoat]

I don't quite understand your logic. You want to be non-interventionins but take the honey and then don't replace it and leave the colony to fend for itself - maybe with no income. Then to purely non-interventionist, you put in Apiguard. ?

Non - interventionist as in not disturbing brood frames every time I check them. Don't think I mentioned stores but they do have enough to get through IF they are queenright.

Apiguard may have caused a problem, maybe not.
When did you put the test frame in? it needed to have eggs or small larvae for the bees to be able to produce a queencell so was it more than 3 weeks ago?

Test frame added saturday PM - checked it Tuesday AM - and yes it did have eggs, but by Tuesday no sign of anything.
I didn't seen the Queen on either Sat or Tues and she was marked, so I will remove Apiguard on Friday and then see if laying starts again.

 

[drstitson]

"Test frame added saturday PM - checked it Tuesday AM - and yes it did have eggs, but by Tuesday no sign of anything"

sounds like workers HAVE engaged in brood killing in this case.

 

[Poly Hive]

Please forget about seeing the queen. If there is broodd there is a queen, if the test frame is as you say is negative then there is a queen (of some sort).

As you have a pretty strong chemical in the hive it is not surprising she is off the lay.

PH