Queenless Nuc ,, chances of survival ?

[Geb]

I have a Queenless nuc. It has 2 frames of supplies (pollen and capped honey), 1 frame of capped brood and another frame of larvae with some eggs. I am hoping that they produce their own queen from the eggs. What chance of success do you think I have, and what can I do to improve my chances?

 

[B+.]

I have a Queenless nuc. It has 2 frames of supplies (pollen and capped honey), 1 frame of capped brood and another frame of larvae with some eggs. I am hoping that they produce their own queen from the eggs. What chance of success do you think I have, and what can I do to improve my chances?

Not very good I'm afraid. A nuc isn't strong enough to feed queen cells. Anything they do manage to produce will probably be malnurished which, for a queen, translates into poorly developed ovaries.

 

[Hivemaker.]

A nuc isn't strong enough to feed queen cells.

That rather depends on the strength of the nuc, this nuc may not be, but it does not apply to all nucs.

 

[B+.]

That rather depends on the strength of the nuc, this nuc may not be, but it does not apply to all nucs.

yeah. I was reading his post though. The only thing I can add is either buy a queen or add a LOT more nurse bees...or get a sealed queen cell from somewhere

 

[Finman]

That rather depends on the strength of the nuc, this nuc may not be, but it does not apply to all nucs.

Like B+ said, not very good.

All nucs..... this nuc has brood in 2 frames.

A small emergency queen, which starts to lay in June. And the origin is?

It is better to buy a queen and perhaps he has laying queen after a week.

 

[Dishmop]

What happened to the queen?

 

[B+.]

This is the sort of population you need to raise good queens

 

[Geb]

Thanks for the advice and pics. I Don't think this little colony is up to the job. I will try to buy a new queen (bit early for a mated queen) maybe a virgin or maybe just a cell?

 

[Geb]

How much time do you think I have to put a new queen in before the colony is in trouble?

 

[Dishmop]

That rather depends on the strength of the nuc, this nuc may not be, but it does not apply to all nucs.

I agree.

A better answer could be given if we knew how many bees there are.

Eggs but no queen.........Swarmed?

 

[Fatbee]

I have a 6 frame nuc with a stroppy queen that I made up a few weeks ago following a unite (kept her in case the unite failed). Was going to despatch her and add in a queen cell from a calm colony making swarm preps. Currently packed with nurse bees (removing frames of brood - bordering on overflowing - so have been adding in fresh drawn comb and removing capped brood. If I put in a single started qc with grub after making them queenless do people think they would stand a good chance of raising a decent queen?

 

[Hivemaker.]

If I put in a single started qc with grub after making them queenless do people think they would stand a good chance of raising a decent queen?

Yes, no problem at all, you could leave them a few days and destroy any emergency cells first.

 

[Fatbee]

Thanks - first year attempting some queen rearing beyond the traditional A/S and removing the stroppy strains that have built up. The queen in the nuc is the last Badun and been busy removing her drone brood. So far so good

 

[B+.]

How much time do you think I have to put a new queen in before the colony is in trouble?

The colony will know its queenless very quickly (so its already in trouble). It will try to make queens from whatever it has but, as stated above, it doesn't really have the resources to make a good queen. If you were able to get a sealed queen cell (maybe from your association?) it would need protecting as they might even try to destroy it in favour of one they were building themselves (even though it wouldn't be very good). Their behaviour might well deteriorate too.
If you can't get a queen, I would be inclined to combine it with another colony if you have one.

 

[Tremyfro]

That's the bit to remember isn't it? You can always combine if things go wrong! Well as long as the bees are healthy. Sort of a safety net. I was lucky last year...we made a nuc in June. We did have 3 frames of brood with eggs and also frames with honey and pollen too. And we fed them. There was a queen cell on one of the frames though...and we shook in bees from 2 frames as well. There was a strong nectar flow here at the time. If things hadn't worked out...we had decided to recombine...but they made a Queen and she got mated. This year they have already started to fill a super.

 

[Swinton apiaries]

This is the sort of population you need to raise good queens

Just one question why do you put a second top bar in and not just use the top bar of the frame to attach the top row of the cell cup holders to

 

[B+.]

Just one question why do you put a second top bar in and not just use the top bar of the frame to attach the top row of the cell cup holders to

I find it easier to remove a bar at a time. There are 15 cells on each bar - sometimes they will not nurse the outer cell on each bar (especially if its cool) but this colony did all 30 cells.
The cells are sealed in the colony then moved to my incubator which has automatic temperature and humidity control. The cells emerge into Nicot cages and I mark them immediately with numbered plastic disks.

To answer your question fully, sometimes the cell bars can be different ages or from different breeders. It helps me control where the grafts come from and when they're due to emerge

 

[Swinton apiaries]

Ok just one more how do you attach each cell holding bar and make it so it can come out the frame

 

[B+.]

Ok just one more how do you attach each cell holding bar and make it so it can come out the frame

I tried several different ways but they always seemed to slide out. The way I settled on was to take a spare side bar and cut the bottom off so I was left with the recess in the top (where the top bar would usually fit). You only need about 2 inches. I screwed these to the inside of the frame so they could be rotated for easier access. The cell bar sits inside the top bar recess. so it can't go anywhere.
I have seen other solutions but this seemed best to me e.g. dip the whole cell bar in wax and slide it horizontally into a groove cut into the side bar of the grafting frame. The wax holds the bar in place by creating a tighter joint.

 

[Tremyfro]

I made mine...I put the first bar low enough to be able to turn it...so it was easier to work with when transferring Queen egg cups or grafting. I thought trying to put the grafts into the frame would be difficult if you had to hold it upside down. I fixed them into the frame with screws but if you wanted to be able to take the bar out then cutting a bit out of the frame upright would work.