Queen and laying workers?

[Bosveldleeu]

Hi I was wondering if anybody has come across the following:

I aquired a very big colony about 3 weeks ago, and on first inspection found no brood of any kind or eggs , but masses of bees, food and a (suspected) virgin queen . As the weather was horrendous for a few weeks before, and there were not many drones around in any of my hives yet, I killed the virgin. I ordered a new queen and put a test frame with open brood into the box just in case there was another virgin around.

A few days later the queen arrived and sure enough there were queen cells on the test frame, which I then destroyed and introduced the queen in my usual way. (Leave the cap on untill they stop making queen cells and trying to sting or bite the queen and then expose the candy and leave them alone)

I checked today and there are eggs and very young brood everywhere. Many cells have several eggs in them though. Not just a few but loads of the cells! I know some young queens will lay more than one egg in a cell and normally wouldn't think about it twice but some of these have five or six eggs in them. They seem to be in the bottom of the cells but many are off-center. It is to early to see whether the larvae are drones or workers.The bees have brought in a lot of nectar so maybe there is not so much laying space for the queen.

The bees are calm and the new queen seems to be happy amongst them and bigger than she was. There was at most 4 days between the virgin being killed and the new queen being in the hive, but I have no idea how long the colony was broodless for, and I know the presence of brood supress laying workers, but then then so should the presence of a queen, even if she was a virgin and did not lay.

Just wondering if I have a few laying workers as well as a queen possibly? I will check in a few days to see if the larvae are workers, drones or both.

I presume if there are laying workers they should stop laying as the open worker brood and queen produce more pheromones so even if there are some it's best to just leave well alone, and hopefully they won't kill the queen in the meantime.

 

[itma]

Laying workers wouldn't tolerate a queen.

The strong likelihood is that HMQ is just learning the job.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Laying workers wouldn't tolerate a queen.

Yet they very often do...and the laying workers will stop after a while.

 

[oliver90owner]

The issue of laying workers and the queen is one of precedence, if this were to be the case. If the laying workers were active before the queen arrived - trouble. As she is in residence, they will hopefully be suppressed eventually.

As the OP says - will have to wait to see if worker or drone brood. Drone brood does not seemingly have the same effect on laying workers as worker brood? (they still keep laying drone brood when no queen is present). All will be revealed after a little patience.

RAB

 

[Bosveldleeu]

Thanks

Thank you for your input, will have a look over the weekend again. I hope she is still safe. If not I will wish I did something about it earlier.

 

[Finman]

Laying workers wouldn't tolerate a queen.

.

That is those old farts fairytales

A few colony tolerates a foreign bee odor.

I have not notices no difference in queen setting with layer workers.
You must be allways carefull when you give a new queen.

If you have another hive, give youg larvae to the queenless hive and they calm down when they are able to rear real queen cells. Worker laying stops then.

Worker laying happens when the colony is desperately queenless.

You have 6 hives and you may donate a larva frame to it.
.
.
.

 

[Midland Beek]

I checked today and there are eggs and very young brood everywhere. Many cells have several eggs in them though. Not just a few but loads of the cells! I know some young queens will lay more than one egg in a cell and normally wouldn't think about it twice but some of these have five or six eggs in them. They seem to be in the bottom of the cells but many are off-center. It is to early to see whether the larvae are drones or workers..

That is just your newly introduced queen come into lay. And this is the reason why the multiple laying:

The bees have brought in a lot of nectar so maybe there is not so much laying space for the queen...

Work some egg laying space into the hive ... or else have that newly introduced queen swarm.

(Laying workers = eggs on cell sides).

 

[Bosveldleeu]

Just checked today - a total of 6 worker cells capped amongst thousands of drones! So my queen is probably not very good. D'oh!

 

[mbc]

My understanding was that most hives will have the odd worker who lay some eggs but under normal circumstances they just get eaten by other workers and the 'problem' rarely gets noticed.

 

[Bosveldleeu]

My suspicion is that there are workers laying, as some cells have lots of eggs in them. But I also think that the queen is laying mostly drone eggs, as many cells that had a perfect large egg layed right in the middle of the bottom of the worker cell is hatching out but turning out to be drone larvae. I will probably end up moving the hive away and letting the flying bees return and join the hive next to it.

Not seen anything like it before.



Thanks for all your input.

 

[QueenMaster]

when I got drone brood in worker brood then I dismantle the colony. I brush frames and distribute then amongst other colonies. The worker will be accepted in other colonies. There is no time to waste to keep a drone laying worker colony. It's better to create a new one from a good colony than trying to save a bad colony that wont overwinter.

If you could save the queen, then do a small hive starting from a good colony and reuse the queen.

 

[masterBK]

Queenmaster : Why increase the Varroa count of other colonies by giving them combs with sealed drone brood ?
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If unsealed drone brood they can indeed be used as a sacrificial comb to entice the mites in and them remove when sealed and put it out for the birds to eat the drone brood with accompanying mites adding a tasty extra bit of flavour .

 

[Finman]

Laying workers wouldn't tolerate a queen.

The strong likelihood is that HMQ is just learning the job.

that is an old fairytale.

Laying worker hive accept the queen very well.

 

[Finman]

Yet they very often do...and the laying workers will stop after a while.

what ever colony kills easily an intoroduced queen if you are not carefull, even if it has no laying workers. for example in August I may kill 80% of my new queens when I offer them during period when bees get not food and robbers try all the time to hive.
During main flow I mostly take an old queen off and I put new laying queen to walk on the comb.

New queen too. If it has layed under 2 weeks, bees do not the queen, but 4 weeks layed is welcome at once.


With laying worker hives I make same safe procedures like with others. So it works.
If the bees are hostile to the queen, don't give it.

 

[Alabamaeee]

I was told recently that DLQ's normally lay eggs on the side of the cell rather than the bottom, so maybe seeing them in the bottom of the cells is a good sign.

 

[Finman]

I was told recently that DLQ's normally lay eggs on the side of the cell rather than the bottom, so maybe seeing them in the bottom of the cells is a good sign.

drone layer is normal queen which is not mated. It lays normally.

Worker layers may do 10 eggs or what ever on the bottom of cells.

 

[youngyoungs]

Hi I was wondering if anybody has come across the following:

Many cells have several eggs in them though. Not just a few but loads of the cells! I know some young queens will lay more than one egg in a cell and normally wouldn't think about it twice but some of these have five or six eggs in them. They seem to be in the bottom of the cells but many are off-center. It is to early to see whether the larvae are drones or workers.The bees have brought in a lot of nectar so maybe there is not so much laying space for the queen.

Interested in what you have seen, we were looking through one of the BKA hives on Saturday and saw something similar. Each frame in the hive was systematically laid with eggs and starting at one end of the hive, they were all one egg per cell. The final frame with eggs on it had patches where there were multiple eggs per cell, not just 1 or 2, but closer to 5-8. None of the experienced beeks there had seen anything like this. We didn't see the queen, and the last time we saw her was 2 weeks ago when she would have been a new Virgin. So we agreed to wait until we see whether these are workers or drones that have been laid.

 

[Finman]

The final frame with eggs on it had patches where there were multiple eggs per cell, not just 1 or 2, but closer to 5-8. .

I have seen those. It is worker layers.

.

So we agreed to wait until we see whether these are workers or drones that have been laid.

No doupt what it is.

If it is a real queen, it must be badly sick or violated.

I have seen a queen which cannot control egg laying. It mad a buch to abdomen and put the abdomen into cells. But this is one duting 50 years.

If you see abnormal laying, allways get a new queen.. Don't wait anything.

.

 

[Bosveldleeu]

Just an update.

She was a drone layer, and was replaced by die supplier, to be safe I have shaken all the bees off some distance away and introduced the replacement queen to all the flying bees that returned (just to get rid of any possible laying workers as well)

The colony is doing very well now thanks to all for your input.