Pros and cons of a single national brood box.

[richardbees]

K

- not surprised your hands and wrists hurt what with that little boy bashing them all the time with that toy spade!

 

[oliver90owner]

Meidel,

I've got used to the 14x12 tho only 5' myself.

I got used to them a decade ago - by choice. The frames need to be lifted about 320mm for TBS or slightly less if BBS. Yes, they are heavier than a deep frame but that is not particularly height correlated (more 'arm length' and strength). They also need to be lifted beyond the box for inspection. One can adjust the hive stand to suit your best working height, surely, so no real prolem apart from the extra weight, as I see it.

Shifting a full box is far heavier than a deep, however. I would not recommend to demaree with a 14 x 12.

But I think 16x10 equipment are cheaper than the 14x12 frames and foundation. So there's that to consider as well.

I have bought sales seconds and gone the way of buying deeps and adding my own eke. I have always found that frames are available at good rates - a little over 80p a throw in the sales (cheap enough for me to have never set about making them myself).

Commercial boxes (and frames?) do not seem to be offered at such competitive rates, if they appear in the sales at all.

Foundation is neither here nor there, pricewise.

So I reckon the 14 x 12 route is considerably cheaper than the commercial option.

I like the deeper frames as the brood nest can be more circular in cross section and leave a honey arch. Just my choices, but I would like to see jusification of your claim of commercials being cheaper.

RAB

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I've noticed something strange.

When I joined the Forum in August last year, and was seeking opinions and advice, all the talk was of how 14 x 12 was the way to go, nationals being too small.

Now, on this thread, the strong opinion seems to be that the National brood is sufficient.

What's going on?

D

 

[nelletap]

I was persuaded to brood and a half for my first winter and hated it. Last winter both my hives wintered on single brood - lots said no but a few on here were supportive. I also had a suggestion to head for commercial because national supers will fit on top. I had decided to go that way and actually asked the person who suggested it - a hive maker - to go ahead but either my emails got lost or perhaps he had problems of some sort so actually I haven't changed. My thought was to have slightly different handles and possibly use a light dummy board in place of one frame (I was slightly worried about the weight for various reasons). With brood and a half there is more lifting because you have to look in both boxes.

I would say follow your instincts and be prepared to have a go to see what suits you. There are those who say that further south, in the M4 corridor as they call it (where I am), you have to have either a 14 x 12 or brood and a half especially if you have a vigorous colony. But if the colony is awkward to manage then you cannot look after the colony as effectively as you would like.

I understand the difficulty of budgets being tight. You might find if you do want to go to a different size there may be someone who can lend you a different size or who may want to swap pending your decision of what actually suits. Often people keep an extra brood box in case of a swarm or something - so they may be happy to have a different sized box as a spare for a while to help out.

 

[susbees]

Commercial boxes (and frames?) do not seem to be offered at such competitive rates, if they appear in the sales at all.

I get my 16x12 brood boxes half price in the sales...

 

[REDWOOD]

I started on standard BB but soon found out that the bees I had soon grew out of then so I am now on 14x12 BB for all my colonies, they do store more honey for themselves but less to feed in the autumn, I made 90mm extensions that where very cheap a couple of £ each, most local bees are not so prolific as hybrid strains like Buckfast and will probably do OK in a standard BB but if you get a local Q that is prolific then you are back on 2 brood boxes, All 3 colonies wintered fine without insulation and varroa inspection tray out all winter

 

[Cazza]

Why not move to double national BB when your bees need more space?

I can barely manage to lift a national BB so anything larger is out of the question for me.

I move to double for Spring and usually reduce to single for Winter. I don't lose colonies over Winterr/Early Spring due to starvation.

Cazza

 

[kazmcc]

Much to consider. Thank you all for your inform opinions. I will discuss it with J and see what we feel comfortable with. At least lifting now isn't an issue for us

 

[oliver90owner]

I get my 16x12 brood boxes half price in the sales...

16 x 12 eh? That's why they are cheap? Do you cut them down for 10" frames or let them build wild comb?

Only seen them in the Th*rne winter sale this last year. I don't look at many other sales as some seconds are a bit dodgy, quality-wise, so I am led to believe.

RAB

 

[alanf]

Why not move to double national BB when your bees need more space?

Around me there are broods in national single deep, brood and a half, double deep, commercial and 14x12 boxes. All have their advocates.

I'm currently on double deeps. My bees in my location seem to grow the colony naturally to peak at that size. I like the broods on a single frame type. I like the versatility of being able to demaree or AS, move frames up and down, use nuc and transport boxes that are the most readily available size. I like being able to quick scan for swarm cells between boxes. I like long lugs because I can get enough finger leverage to operate without a hive tool a lot of the time. I like that the size I'm using is nearly always included in the UK sale lists.

Downside is more boxes and frames to check and when you do need to find the queen for AS or replacement it's more faff. Everyone has their own priorities. For instance, if I was on a commercial scale I can see the advantage of top space and single brood boxes.