Prepping for a nuc/swarm prevention.

[Bakerbee]

Hi all i hope this finds everyone safe and well during these strange times. I have one hive that has been going great guns and upon inspection today has a charged queen cell very nearly capped and a few play cups nearly beginning to look like qc. Ive always done the pagen method for swarm control but would like to try using a nuc/method this time. Before i do ive knocked the qc and cups, to give me a little time to seek some guidance and advice. I plan to find the queen pop her in a nuc with a frame of capped brood, the frame she is on, a frame of food then 3 frames of foundation. I will then shake a few more frames into her and clise her up in a new location. ( the hive thats swarmy is on double brood). Next once shes set up i will go into the old hive and remove by shaking down every frame and remove all qc and replace the frames taken, then leave them to raise a new queen. I will go in again once queen cells are made and knock back all but one healthy looking one. (I still have original queen if it all goes badly). Have i missed anything and will this curb their swarmyness like the pagen method. Thanks for any advice and stay safe,
Jus.

 

[masterBK]

The nucleus method is best for beekeepers not interested in producing honey. If you normally have a honey flow later in the season then this method will severely reduce your honey crop as there will not be a laying queen in the hive for several weeks and every day of this you won't be getting 1000 + eggs laid. And when the new queen eventually starts laying it takes nearly 6 weeks to go from egg to forager. Why destroy the swarm queen cells and then let them produce emergency queen cells. Doesn't make sense. Retain one good sized swarm cell and you will hopefully get a laying queen in two or three weeks.

 

[Smudger55]

@masterbk
what method would you advise on if you wanted to keep colony for honey production?

 

[Bakerbee]

Hi masterbeek. Yes i understand the loss of honey production, i have other hives so am not worried about that , i just thought id try a different way of swarm control this year as want to keep learning through experience. I wonder tho, taking your points into consideration, could i do it the other way round and make a nuc up with newly laid eggs and leave them to raise a queen, while leaving the queen in her old site, but can you do this for swarm prevention? Does it remove the swarming instinct to just reduce frame numbers by creating a nuc. I thought it would be questionable so thought taking the queen to create the nuc would work best.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

its a good question and im interested in replies as ive ended up taking a few queens out to nucs this year from double broods that have started to show swarm signs and am not yet adept enough to know which other methods could keep the colony up and running so as not to impact on foragers etc

 

[Swarm]

As masterBK, keep one good swarm cell, return to break down emergency cells and leaving that original cell.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ok, thanks, yes, thats what ive done

i guess i was wondering what alternatives were such as demaree (worked well for me last year) or other methods which maintain continuity during queen rearing process

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I plan to find the queen pop her in a nuc with a frame of capped brood, the frame she is on, a frame of food then 3 frames of foundation. I will then shake a few more frames into her and clise her up in a new location

When you say new location, I hope you mean within the same apiary - moving her three miles away shut in with a load of flying bees will only mean, as soon as they settle down, there's a good chance they'll swarm from the nuc. Keeping them at the same apiary will mean all the fliers will bleed back to the 'mother' hive
As others have said, keep a good open swarm cell - much better than an EQC

 

[Bakerbee]

Hi jenkins yes theyre still in my apiary down at the bottom of my garden, (which opens onto farm land) moved 4 feet to the left .

 

[Swarm]

Did the same with two of mine today, sadly beat me to a chance of doing a Demarree, I'll be shaking and breaking on the weekend. Made a mental note to do a Demarree next year with one of them with particularly well behaved bees and lots of them.
One stunning colony of black bees already on Demarree and another planned for the weekend.
Busy weekend

 

[Curly green finger's]

Hi masterbeek. Yes i understand the loss of honey production, i have other hives so am not worried about that , i just thought id try a different way of swarm control this year as want to keep learning through experience. I wonder tho, taking your points into consideration, could i do it the other way round and make a nuc up with newly laid eggs and leave them to raise a queen, while leaving the queen in her old site, but can you do this for swarm prevention? Does it remove the swarming instinct to just reduce frame numbers by creating a nuc. I thought it would be questionable so thought taking the queen to create the nuc would work best.

I've three nucs exactly like this. queen was left in original hive but the splits were done before any qcs were charged I've two virgin s and one just about to emerge.
The parent hives are still single brood and with two supers on 2 and 1 on another the third is going to need a demaree which won't lose you your honey crop.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The nucleus method is best for beekeepers not interested in producing honey. If you normally have a honey flow later in the season then this method will severely reduce your honey crop as there will not be a laying queen in the hive for several weeks and every day of this you won't be getting 1000 + eggs laid. And when the new queen eventually starts laying it takes nearly 6 weeks to go from egg to forager. Why destroy the swarm queen cells and then let them produce emergency queen cells. Doesn't make sense. Retain one good sized swarm cell and you will hopefully get a laying queen in two or three weeks.

Ah but you can keep removing sealed brood from the nuc and putting it back into your parent hive. You can re unite the two colonies as well.

 

[beeno]

Hi masterbeek. Yes i understand the loss of honey production, i have other hives so am not worried about that , i just thought id try a different way of swarm control this year as want to keep learning through experience. I wonder tho, taking your points into consideration, could i do it the other way round and make a nuc up with newly laid eggs and leave them to raise a queen, while leaving the queen in her old site, but can you do this for swarm prevention? Does it remove the swarming instinct to just reduce frame numbers by creating a nuc. I thought it would be questionable so thought taking the queen to create the nuc would work best.

I don't think it is a good idea to leave a nuc to raise QCs as there will not be enough nurse bees for the task. You could of course make up a nuc from a colony as a swarm prevention method to take the heat out of it, but take a capped QC preferably day 14 produced by a large Q+ colony.

 

[Bakerbee]

All great suggestions thankyou so much for your thoughts. I think i will proceed with creating a nuc with the queen as i described in my original post. But i do like the idea of a possible bolstering the original hive if needed with capped brood and a reunite later in the season. I just hope it all goes to plan, which in my experience of beekeeping hasnt happened all that often. I just want to try a new way of swarm control as you can read only so much, but learn so much more from putting into practice what youve read.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I don't think it is a good idea to leave a nuc to raise QCs as there will not be enough nurse bees for the task. You could of course make up a nuc from a colony as a swarm prevention method to take the heat out of it, but take a capped QC preferably day 14 produced by a large Q+ colony.

Not all right some of my nucs have been made with qcs from a Q- top half of a demaree colony.
Allso my nucs are 4 frames of solid brood one of eggs and one of stores.. Extra nurse bee's are added to the point where there spilling out. Imo there's plenty of nurse bee's.

 

[Swarm]

Not all right some of my nucs have been made with qcs from a Q- top half of a demaree colony.
Allso my nucs are 4 frames of solid brood one of eggs and one of stores.. Extra nurse bee's are added to the point where there spilling out. Imo there's plenty of nurse bee's.

Some weak colonies smaller than that have been saved with a frame of eggs.