Possible DLQ & test frame

[tonel]

Hello, am wondering if I could get some advice...I have a hive with a new queen who emerged around 15th May. 11th June no sign of Q or eggs, so placed a test frame into the hive. Checked again 4 days later, no sign of any QCs on test frame and spotted a queen, along with a very small quantity of eggs, only seen in drone sized cells. Checked again today - spotted and marked the queen, again only eggs seen were in the small area of drone sized cells on one frame, and a few (5-6) larvae in scattered worker cells on one frame. Small patch of capped worker brood present on test frame still, along with what looks like an emergency QC.

Am wondering if is it likely the new queen is a drone layer, or am I being impatient even though it has been over 5 weeks since emergence? And the other worry is what will happen when the developing queen emerges from the emergency QC? Not sure if I should remove the existing queen at this stage. Have read about DLQs but was under the impression she would be laying up areas of worker cells with infertile eggs rather than just in drone sized cells. Am also worried if the emerging queen is killed by the existing one I'll be left hopelessly queenless (unless it is seen as a supercedure cell?).

Any advice appreciated!

 

[enrico]

At least you have asked before you have done!
However it is still going to be guess work from me, maybe RAB will be along shortly with some hard facts
I would do a good old fashioned artificial swarm. That way you get to keep both queens and see what happens. I might even be tempted to add another frame of eggs to the queen cell part of the AS
that is what I would do
E

 

[tonel]

Thanks enrico..food for thought, has got me thinking - I have an empty nuc out there, guess I could put in the frame with the QC along with a food frame, shake in some bees and make a mating nuc up. Then if the existing queen is a dud I could hopefully combine the nuc (assuming the emerging queen mates and starts doing her thing!)

The thought didn't occur to me at the time, it's always worth stopping to think and ask for advice!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The thought didn't occur to me at the time, it's always worth stopping to think and ask for advice!

Silly idea - never catch on!

 

[oliver90owner]

OK, I'm here to put my honest opinion.

Around thirtynine days since emergence and no real progress on the laying front. With some recent favourable weather, I would be expecting the new queen to be well into her stride by now. However, a few days of poor weather, when she was receptive to mating, could have curtailed her potential. So my thoughts are that she is, unfortunately, a duff queen.

You have another colony? At a push you could remove the queen (and suspect queen cell) and get an emergency cell developed on another frame of eggs. Not ideal, but if nothing better is available.....

The better alternative would be a laying queen (no near two week wait for a queen to emerge followed by at least ten days before laying and a further three weeks before any emerging brood (you can work out the dates!).

Dependent on your expectations from your other colony, you could be moving over some emerging brood to bolster this colony.

Maybe when you look for her, to squish her, she will be laying strongly, but I doubt it from your description. Your colony is weakening, so my advice is based on the summer passing by. Can't wait too long before acting, I think.

RAB

 

[tonel]

Thanks for the advice. It's frustrating, especially after finding and marking her today, she looks a decent size and a nice queen. As you say, it's been a while now and the fact the only eggs I'm seeing are in drone sized cells is worrying.

Unfortunately my other hive is currently queenless (original queen in new hive..had plenty of space but she swarmed just as I arrived for an inspection last week. That hive now has no eggs or young larvae, 1 now-sealed QC left). So it seems I may be in a bit of trouble!

I've moved the QC frame to a nuc for now, my worry was if I left it they might throw a swarm on emergence or the DLQ would kill the emerging Q. It's interesting that the emergency cell has appeared recently even though the colony has a queen..wasn't sure if it was considered a supercedure though - maybe I've made a mistake removing it. I also googled about queens only laying in drone sized cells but couldn't find much reference to it, assumed a DLQ would be laying in worker cells too.

Think I'll give her a few more days and if nothing then going to remove her and somehow recombine the nuc assuming the Q emerges. Will have to make some enquiries to try and source a Q or test frame if things don't work out.

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[enrico]

Sometimes patience can be all it takes!
Thanks RAB knew you would be along!
E

 

[tonel]

Just a follow up really..inspected today, 3 frames brood, all drone as expected Noted a few open QCs but guessing they won't be viable. Had a quick look in other colony - chosen QC had emerged, going to leave alone for a couple of weeks and hope that one gets mated and starts laying.

Not sure what the best option for the DLQ colony is really..other than a test frame it's not had any new brood emerging for quite a while now. Not sure if it's worth trying to source a queen to introduce or wether better to try and combine with the other hive - have a feeling it might not be wise to combine with a hive with a new queen yet to be mated and start laying though..

 

[tonel]

Final follow up - was able to source a mated queen, introduced via nuc method after finding and removing the DLQ. Today have BIAS and capped worker brood. Also spotted a small patch of eggs and young larvae in my other hive, nice pattern so feeling hopeful.

Has been a good learning experience, even if it was a bit stressful! Supers on both hives are filling up too, looks like I might have some honey by the end of my first full year as a bonus

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[jd101k2000]

Yes, I think that it is easy to forget the stress of being a new bee keeper. The whole life of the colony seems so precarious when headed by a single queen... and you are somehow responsible for them all.

Well done on working through it.

 

[bontbee]

what's happening to the "timeline" on this thread??? Have I been asleep for a week, or more??

 

[enrico]

No, but to be honest it is nice to have someone tell us what happened when they asked for advice. I often wonder. On this occasion I feel I was wrong....worth knowing.
Thanks for the update
E

 

[bontbee]

why do the dates show 23rd June, 29th, then "today", which by my reckoning, should be the 17th???

 

[tonel]

New Q introduced to 3 frame nuc made from problem hive on the 3rd June..introduced back to main hive on the 5th (direct with water spray/smoke). Eggs seen in this hive 11 July. New Q in other hive emerged approx 29 June, seems she's started laying last few days. 'Today' as you say being 17th June

Apologies for not adding all the information - guess I was just relieved to see eggs and brood in both hives finally. Maybe it wasn't worth posting about but was just glad that I seem to have 2 queenright hives again!

 

[Dishmop]

why do the dates show 23rd June, 29th, then "today", which by my reckoning, should be the 17th???

Today, tomorrow will be yesteday and yesterday will show as the appropriate date as the day before yesterday..

 

[enrico]

why do the dates show 23rd June, 29th, then "today", which by my reckoning, should be the 17th???

Because we are in July now..... Durrr! The first posts were in June!
E

 

[Dishmop]

Because we are in July now..... Durrr! The first posts were in June!
E

That means I've missed my holiday flight..

 

[bontbee]

Because we are in July now..... Durrr! The first posts were in June!
E

Oh, b****r, bin asleep for three weeks then. Thanks for pointing that out E - I really did slip the month. I blame several very senior moments, all happening at once, or insufficient sleep, or just senility

 

[tonel]

New Q introduced to 3 frame nuc made from problem hive on the 3rd July..introduced back to main hive on the 5th (direct with water spray/smoke). Eggs seen in this hive 11 July. New Q in other hive emerged approx 29 June, seems she's started laying last few days. 'Today' as you say being 17th July

Just realised I'd mixed some of my Junes and Julys in my last post - have corrected above (wouldn't let me edit the post again). Sorry about that!