Poorly mated queen

[StephenT]

I briefly posted this in the “What did you do....” thread yesterday but am seeking a bit more more help on understanding how the situation arises. The Queen was due to emerge (after the hive swarmed) about 25/4 and there was eggs and larvae when we inspected on 9/5. Found the queen and marked her yesterday but the main capped brood frame has very poor pattern and mixed worker and drone brood. The weather was very mixed around the time of mating and it was quite early in the season. What is poorly mated and why does it manifest itself in what I am seeing now (assuming that is the cause)? Is it down to the number of drones she mates with and/or the quality of the sperm from those drones, who may not be fully mature? And what is the mechanism for some eggs being fertilised and others not? I’ve done a few searches but can't get much detail. Just trying to understand what is behind what is going on rather than just reacting to the situation without properly understanding the cause.

I plan to either replace her with a new Q or merge the colony back with the swarm part of the colony which is currently in a double BB nuc. If they have started making supersedure cells, should I remove them and the Q and wait until hopelessly queenless before taking action?

Thanks.

 

[Antipodes]

She needs to have mated with at least 12 drones.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Found the queen and marked her yesterday but the main capped brood frame has very poor pattern and mixed worker

That would have been the first batch of eggs she laid - she may just be 'clearing her throat' I'd wait until the present batch of open brood is sealed before doing any intense handwringing.
A photograph of the brood would have helped.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes....I would leave another week.
If you are still unsure then post a photo of a couple of frames with the bees shaken off

 

[B+.]

I briefly posted this in the “What did you do....” thread yesterday but am seeking a bit more more help on understanding how the situation arises. The Queen was due to emerge (after the hive swarmed) about 25/4 and there was eggs and larvae when we inspected on 9/5. Found the queen and marked her yesterday but the main capped brood frame has very poor pattern and mixed worker and drone brood. The weather was very mixed around the time of mating and it was quite early in the season. What is poorly mated and why does it manifest itself in what I am seeing now (assuming that is the cause)? Is it down to the number of drones she mates with and/or the quality of the sperm from those drones, who may not be fully mature? And what is the mechanism for some eggs being fertilised and others not? I’ve done a few searches but can't get much detail. Just trying to understand what is behind what is going on rather than just reacting to the situation without properly understanding the cause.

I plan to either replace her with a new Q or merge the colony back with the swarm part of the colony which is currently in a double BB nuc. If they have started making supersedure cells, should I remove them and the Q and wait until hopelessly queenless before taking action?

Thanks.

One of the things you can do is to learn how to test drone maturity. This video is specific to instrumental insemination, but, the first part shows you how to evert the endophallus and expose the semen. There is really little point in raising queens unless/until you have drones that are mature/nearly so (because of the lag between queen and drone maturity).
It can be impressive when people show images of virgin queens emerging early - but, as you have seen, they'll usually not mate properly and can be superseded early. Experience has taught me to wait until at-least the start of May (sometimes, if the conditions aren't right, I wait until mid-May).
Both virgin queens and drones require the same conditions as they develop: warmth and an abundance of food. This implies that the nurse colonies have plenty of protein (pollen) and carbohydrate (fresh nectar/honey) but also that they have lots of young nurse bees to feed the developing larvae. This Spring has been particularly cool and wet so, the recommendation must be to delay queen rearing activities until the conditions are right. I did my first experimental graft of the season on 17th May and only about half of the graft took, so I re-grafted the following day. If you're raising queens, you have to track what's going on.
Is your queen laying consistent patterns? She will be a little inconsistent for the first day, or two, but after that she should get into her stride. If she is laying solid patterns it may be that the workers are removing eggs/larvae that they believe to be flawed. This may be because the stream of incoming nectar is intermittent (as it has been) - if they don't have the food necessary to support the colony, they may cannibalise the brood. Another cause may be the removal of diploid drones if they detect inbreeding - but this will only affect drones. So, check drone removal against worker removal.
Early in the season, drones may not "have a full load" if they are too young or lack the conditions for proper development I spoke about earlier. However, the queen will usually just mate with more drones if she is able to. If there is insufficient numbers of drones available, she may return to the hive "unsatisfied". She will often go on subsequent mating flights unless prevented by poor weather. Eventually, she will just start laying as this is what the colony needs her to do. Watch out for early supersedure though as the conditions improve.

 

[rolande]

Sealed brood only tells part of the story, pay special attention to the patches of developing larvae prior to sealing. Are you getting large consistent areas of same age larvae?

 

[StephenT]

Thanks all. As suggested, I’ll wait until next weekend when the weather is better and check out the brood pattern again.

 

[drex]

Just been through my hives. Some are really going great guns, but others are lagging. Initially I thought it was due to poor or absent queens, but I found her in all colonies, and I could not have so many poorly mated queens in so many colonies. On closer inspection it was obviously due to the weather pattern, which has largely been crap. Queens going off lay, laying for a day or two, then going off lay again. As already said, it can take a new queen time to settle. I would also counsel patience.

 

[StephenT]

One of the things you can do is to learn how to test drone maturity. This video is specific to instrumental insemination, but, the first part shows you how to evert the endophallus and expose the semen. There is really little point in raising queens unless/until you have drones that are mature/nearly so (because of the lag between queen and drone maturity).
It can be impressive when people show images of virgin queens emerging early - but, as you have seen, they'll usually not mate properly and can be superseded early. Experience has taught me to wait until at-least the start of May (sometimes, if the conditions aren't right, I wait until mid-May).
Both virgin queens and drones require the same conditions as they develop: warmth and an abundance of food. This implies that the nurse colonies have plenty of protein (pollen) and carbohydrate (fresh nectar/honey) but also that they have lots of young nurse bees to feed the developing larvae. This Spring has been particularly cool and wet so, the recommendation must be to delay queen rearing activities until the conditions are right. I did my first experimental graft of the season on 17th May and only about half of the graft took, so I re-grafted the following day. If you're raising queens, you have to track what's going on.
Is your queen laying consistent patterns? She will be a little inconsistent for the first day, or two, but after that she should get into her stride. If she is laying solid patterns it may be that the workers are removing eggs/larvae that they believe to be flawed. This may be because the stream of incoming nectar is intermittent (as it has been) - if they don't have the food necessary to support the colony, they may cannibalise the brood. Another cause may be the removal of diploid drones if they detect inbreeding - but this will only affect drones. So, check drone removal against worker removal.
Early in the season, drones may not "have a full load" if they are too young or lack the conditions for proper development I spoke about earlier. However, the queen will usually just mate with more drones if she is able to. If there is insufficient numbers of drones available, she may return to the hive "unsatisfied". She will often go on subsequent mating flights unless prevented by poor weather. Eventually, she will just start laying as this is what the colony needs her to do. Watch out for early supersedure though as the conditions improve.

Back to the schoolbooks for diploid drones. Found quite a good explanation on the Honey Bee Suite.
No shortage of nectar and pollen in the hive. 2 supers (one full) and probably too much stores in the brood area.
So, the drone brood mixed with the worker brood. How does that relate to being poorly mated, or could it more to do with the a defect in the Q (temporary or permanent) and her ability to fertilise the eggs with the sperm available?
I expect I’m looking for simple answers where they don’t exist.

 

[B+.]

Back to the schoolbooks for diploid drones. Found quite a good explanation on the Honey Bee Suite.
No shortage of nectar and pollen in the hive. 2 supers (one full) and probably too much stores in the brood area.
So, the drone brood mixed with the worker brood. How does that relate to being poorly mated, or could it more to do with the a defect in the Q (temporary or permanent) and her ability to fertilise the eggs with the sperm available?
I expect I’m looking for simple answers where they don’t exist.

A normal drone is "haploid" (he has a single set of chromosomes which he receives from his mother). A diploid drone occurs when the queen fertilizes the egg but one/more of the drones she mated with were closely related to her. A better description would be if the contribution from the queen was the same as the contribution from the drone (or more precisely, the queen which laid the egg that eventually became the drone). The workers are able to detect this and they remove it from the cell. You'd notice patchy brood though - @rolande is correct to say the unsealed brood tells you more than he sealed pattern.
There is always the possibility of physical damage to a queen but I doubt this is the case here. It's more likely the consequence of poor development/mating conditions in either the queen or the drones she mated with.