Poor queen introduction rate

[jeff33]

Introduction to nuc is not a problem. It's introducing to a Q- hive afterwards that is.

 

[foghornleghorn]

That's the right way round for a good success rate. Less easy in reverse, but with the right methodology still works for the most part.

Ok its a bit tenuous, but bees are a bit like blood groups......some require only their own type (iberica is worst) and others (especially ligustica) will accept anything (just about).

However we do prefer to use the press in type cages, on hatching brood, especially if introducing Buckfast or carnica into black bees. Still get a good success rate using those, failures half or less of the rate using the shipping cages.

Dunking the shipping cage complete with queen and attendants in a tub of water looks dramatic.....but it stops the queen from flying and makes picking her out to put alone in the press in cage a cinch.

When using the push in cage do you always have them hopelessly Queen less when different breeds?

 

[B+.]

When using the push in cage do you always have them hopelessly Queen less when different breeds?

It's not really necessary but if you wanted to be absolutely certain that they could not generate a queen of their own, that would do it.

 

[Finman]

Hopelessly queenless is rare. IT means that hive has no brood from where they can rear a new Queen.

 

[Finman]

.
But the question was, that the hive accept the Queen but later begins to rear a new Queen.

You cannot stop it, because they continue it and then in autumn they rear drone layer..

.

 

[Into the lions den]

When using the push in cage do you always have them hopelessly Queen less when different breeds?

No, there are choices.

We can normally do it, from scheduling necessity, pretty well within the first few hours from making up a nuc, but preferably make it up and leave it queenless for a week or so. Then destroy any cells....and you need sharp eyes at times for late started cells that are merely the slightest of changes at the cell mouth and an increased supply of royal jelly........and can also be on drone (the bees don't know they are trying to raise a dud at that stage).

Same applies to full size splits etc even full hives.

Then find a patch of hatching brood, remove ALL hive bees from it and press the cage into the brood sealed all round. We use the white Nicot ones so from here on what I say might need to be adapted to other makes or home made.

Before pressing fill the candy tube with a nice stiff fondant....add icing sugar if you have to and work it well in......remembering to remove the little plastic barrier if its the first time of using the cage.

Place the queen cage in the water tub and make sure the bees are thoroughly wet. remove the plug from the cage. then open queen cage and pick out the queen only. place her in through the hole in the press in cage and keep your finger over the end until you see her walking away from the hole. then replace the plug. Put the frame into the hive with another frame of brood against the cage. Hive back together and give it a feed of syrup (simulates a nectar flow and radically improves acceptance). Do NOT get tempted to go nosing in before a week has passed.......every day before that increases failure rate.

As the brood hatches the queen then has her own little crowd of companions and can even start to lay even before she has been released from the cage.

Its not complex but if any questions don't worry about asking.

 

[sipa]

Using the white Nicot push in cages is near 100% effective, if you follow the rules as above.

Just make sure the cage is WELL PUSHED IN as bees will burrow under an open cell if they can. This will mess things up.

 

[Plenty of honey]

When using the push in cage do you always have them hopelessly Queen less when different breeds?

you might have already seen this Foghornleghorn. but if not it will help you understand more. This is the process in Video. I find it really effective.

https://youtu.be/aGbjfYV8v38

As usual "Intothelionsden", bang on the money!! if their known to be really agressive towards taking a new queen, then as well as making them hopelessly Queenless and removing your flying bees buy moving the colony, you can also move the push in cage to another patch of emerging brood after the first four days if your really struggling. This is of course all very time consuming but, if your desperate, it will work.

 

[foghornleghorn]

No, there are choices.

We can normally do it, from scheduling necessity, pretty well within the first few hours from making up a nuc, but preferably make it up and leave it queenless for a week or so. Then destroy any cells....and you need sharp eyes at times for late started cells that are merely the slightest of changes at the cell mouth and an increased supply of royal jelly........and can also be on drone (the bees don't know they are trying to raise a dud at that stage).

Same applies to full size splits etc even full hives.

Then find a patch of hatching brood, remove ALL hive bees from it and press the cage into the brood sealed all round. We use the white Nicot ones so from here on what I say might need to be adapted to other makes or home made.

Before pressing fill the candy tube with a nice stiff fondant....add icing sugar if you have to and work it well in......remembering to remove the little plastic barrier if its the first time of using the cage.

Place the queen cage in the water tub and make sure the bees are thoroughly wet. remove the plug from the cage. then open queen cage and pick out the queen only. place her in through the hole in the press in cage and keep your finger over the end until you see her walking away from the hole. then replace the plug. Put the frame into the hive with another frame of brood against the cage. Hive back together and give it a feed of syrup (simulates a nectar flow and radically improves acceptance). Do NOT get tempted to go nosing in before a week has passed.......every day before that increases failure rate.

As the brood hatches the queen then has her own little crowd of companions and can even start to lay even before she has been released from the cage.

Its not complex but if any questions don't worry about asking.

Thanks for that

 

[Finman]

Using the white Nicot push in cages is near 100% effective, if you follow the rules as above.

Just make sure the cage is WELL PUSHED IN as bees will burrow under an open cell if they can. This will mess things up.

I do not believe those percents.

I August, when we do not have any yield, dead rate is nearer 100% than succes rate.

I introduce last queens during feeding.

Push in cage does not save all queens.

 

[jeff33]

Let us know how you get on Eyeman. I can't keep buying queens until they accept one. I have put the queens back in a nuc and will let them build up in there and let the other hives raise their own with larvae of these new queens.

 

[Eyeman]

Let us know how you get on Eyeman. I can't keep buying queens until they accept one. I have put the queens back in a nuc and will let them build up in there and let the other hives raise their own with larvae of these new queens.

I will find out towards then end of this week