Poly vs wood?

[Finman]

Most everyone in our area use wood, because it is more environmentally friendly, and bee friendly, and is more natural. Which makes the bee keepers feel like they are doing the right thing and making the correct decisions for both their colony and community.

Your are kidding when we look the annual dead losses of US bee colonies. (40%)

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[REDWOOD]

Environmental malarky, all hypocrites. Hands up all those who have bought electrical appliances and taken them back because they were not packed with an environmentally friendly material.
I'm sure just a couple of hives compared to all the packaging produced every day is not going to make much difference.

 

[misterbee82]

I mean polymer based products require chemicals, and even plywood requires an adhesive. Regular wood can avoid a lot of these processes and be less harmful to the environment and the bees.

 

[Swarm]

Just a box to keep bees in.

 

[user 6228]

I mean polymer based products require chemicals, and even plywood requires an adhesive. Regular wood can avoid a lot of these processes and be less harmful to the environment and the bees.

19mm of wood is really rubbish at imitating a tree but 75mm of polystyrene or 50mm of PIR gets very close in terms of thermal conductivity

 

[BeeJayBee]

...The environmental argument is valid to a point. It has to be remembered that trees have to be felled to get wood to built your hive so there is negative points to both poly and wood .

And it probably costs more per to move wood than poly, so the environmental impact in terms of exhaust emissions is greater no matter how long or short the journey is.

Some people complain that poly lasts for ever, but surely it's a good thing?

 

[Finman]

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When I drive my car, I burn in two weeks more oil, that they have used to make my poly boxes.

You can compare. One poly box is 1 kg, and compare it to 1 litre gasoline or diesel.
And poly box lasts easily 30 years.

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[Finman]

Some people complain that poly lasts for ever, but surely it's a good thing?

They do not last for ever when you get wax moth into boxes and store room is warm.

 

[jimmybee]

Finman what poly make do you use?

 

[Finman]

Finman what poly make do you use?

First were Swedish Nacka. They are good quality material. Most are now 25-30 y old. Year has been printed on the wall.

Then Honey Paradise. They have better insulation. Nacka has 2 thick wall mirrors, but Paradise has whole wall 4 cm thick. When I have measured the heat leaking with surface temp, there is a clear difference with these two. But Nacka is very good in winter too. I have not noticed difference in practice.

Floors and covers are self made.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And it probably costs more per to move wood than poly, so the environmental impact in terms of exhaust emissions is greater no matter how long or short the journey is.

But you can plant another tree to replace the one you cut down - you can't plant an oil seed and hope something grows from that

 

[Finman]

But you can plant another tree to replace the one you cut down - you can't plant an oil seed and hope something grows from that

In my country forest owner comes and shoot you. And in my country you cannot cut what ever tree, not even your own. But in public park you can cut the tree. No one will run after you.

Our oil comes from Russia via a big tube.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

When I have looked at the various designs of poly hive, it seemed to me that a lot of the designers were more concerned with structural integrity and saving material than in the absolute best thermodynamic performance. There were ribs clearly intended to stiffen the sides but that left large areas with comparatively thin poly walls. Poly thermal performance is no different to that of other materials - the thicker the better; thin walls lose more heat. Some designs have lifting hand-grips that are far bigger than they need to be and these thinner areas lose heat that is entirely foreseeable and unnecessary. Maybe the designers of Finman's newer hives have concentrated on the best thermal performance rather that structural integrity and material cost-saving.

If DerekM is about, he might be able to offer a better explanation.

My next project is to build a PIR hive with 30mm thick walls but using a 30mm thick deep roof/cosy during the winter to help maintain suitable brood temperatures - all based on ideas gleaned from DerekM's research.

CVB

 

[chrisb]

Environmental malarky, all hypocrites. Hands up all those who have bought electrical appliances and taken them back because they were not packed with an environmentally friendly material.
I'm sure just a couple of hives compared to all the packaging produced every day is not going to make much difference.

I honestly hate opening something to be confronted with polystyrene in its mass, thats it done and dusted served its use what a waste !
yet these days it gets busted up and used in the packing dept again

 

[Swarm]

Waste of time discussing environmental issues, with so many other things we do/buy/own or make, there's a lot we need to consider.
I see poly v wood as a personal choice, bees do perfectly fine in either.

 

[Finman]

When I have looked at the various designs of poly hive, it seemed to me that a lot of the designers were more concerned with structural integrity and saving material than in the absolute best thermodynamic performance. There were ribs clearly intended to stiffen the sides but that left large areas with comparatively thin poly walls. Poly thermal performance is no different to that of other materials - the thicker the better; thin walls lose more heat. Some designs have lifting hand-grips that are far bigger than they need to be and these thinner areas lose heat that is entirely foreseeable and unnecessary. Maybe the designers of Finman's newer hives have concentrated on the best thermal performance rather that structural integrity and material cost-saving.

If DerekM is about, he might be able to offer a better explanation.

My next project is to build a PIR hive with 30mm thick walls but using a 30mm thick deep roof/cosy during the winter to help maintain suitable brood temperatures - all based on ideas gleaned from DerekM's research.

CVB

Those polyhives have tested in very cold countries tens of years.

Two producers in Finland are real top professionals. Another has 2000-3000 hives, and another has 1000 hives. But the model before them was Nacka hive, and it is still splended
in -30C winter weather. We have lots of professional beekeepers in Sweden and in Finland, who have used polyboxes tens of years.

I wonder what new British beekeepers can offer to that issue?

Those guys produce honey. Hives are not toys. Winter food lasts from September to May, because insulation is good.

Tools and furnitures must be handy to work, and insulation has not been problem in beekeeping during last 20 years in our country. That is why all beekeepers use insulated hives in Finland.

Derekm has much to do among British beekeepers, who do not even know, what is true winter. He can start to manufacture those new generation hives, if he is serious in his teaching. Poly prices are really good UK, and he can run prosperous business.
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[user 6228]

But you can plant another tree to replace the one you cut down - you can't plant an oil seed and hope something grows from that

PEDANT ALERT

Strictly speaking thats not true you can use plant oils to produce plastics

and of course fossil oil comes from plants so it is renewable

not just not in a useful time scale.

and making product with a useable lifetime of greater than 20 years must rank as one of the best uses of plastics

 

[chrisb]

im with finman its personal choice

 

[Cussword]

I've just read your introduction to the forum.http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36332

I see no negative comments at all.

What he may have thought was negative, ie the post about YouTube was excellent advice. Comments about people's signatures is a little petty.

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[Little John]

There is a certain gentlemen who lectures others about his version of 'Sustainable Beekeeping' and who condemns the presence of a few pennyworth of metal in a beehive because of it's harmful ecological footprint. He does so on the Internet whilst communicating via a Pentium-class laptop containing rare-earth capacitors, an N-Gigabyte hard drive, and the services of the global Internet structure - which I suspect may well contain just a little bit of metal, here and there.

A bit like flying to a Global Warming symposium on a 747.
LJ