Poly hives

[Lancs Lad]

Well worth a read on insulation.
https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/201...ust-2019-insulation-cavity-size-golden-hives/

https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/warm-hives/

 

[Finman]

Well worth a read on insulation.
https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/201...ust-2019-insulation-cavity-size-golden-hives/

https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/warm-hives/

Real fairy tales those stories.

" ,in tree cavity bees need 1/10 compared to hive wintering!!!!"

In Finland we use on average 20 kg sugar during winter month from September to May

It is 9 months, when bees do not get food from nature. They live with fed sugar.. the cost is 12€/hive.


Our hives produce 6W heat on average per day, when we calculate the consumption of sugar during rest Period without brood.

It is not 20W.

But in Britain winter is what it is. There are often brood in the hives through the winter. Our hives do not have brood during 7 winter months.

 

[ericbeaumont]

The current dominant hive in the world is Langstroth (wood) and in the UK is National (wood).

I think too much can be made of a beekeepers equipment. The thing that really counts is the years of experience and the painful lessons along the way. It’s easier to change your equipment than to become a great beekeeper. The great beekeepers that I know have worked out what’s right for them, but given the variety of boxes being used it’s hard to accept that hive type is as critical a variable as many people think it is.

Thoughtful words, Steve.

To date, wood has been the dominant material because it's been cheap and plentiful and easy to work, but with no competition bar clay or straw (alright, aluminium in about 1953, somewhere in a corner of England) it was chosen surely because it was - for some, still is - the only robust and cost-effective material available. That is no longer the case technically, but to wean a wood-loving beekeeper (or manufacturer) away from such an intimate and pleasurable material - well, save your (thermal) energy.

Yes, expensive or sophisticated equipment will never compensate for a casual textbook approach to beekeeping, but I think of the craft as a synthesis of three elements: knowledge of bees, knowledge of the environment, and knowledge of equipment. Each informs the other two and the one cannot be removed without detriment to success; eventually, experience arrives.

You say that It’s hard to accept that hive type is as critical a variable as many people think it is. I suggest that very few pause to consider hive type (although material is more apt) beyond reaching for the debit card, because what is usually taught is a repeat of the show that was first aired in 1867. Nothing wrong with that in the right environment and with consideration, but I hear often the sound of a mantra flapping its wings as it lands in the mind of another beginner.

Hive type or material may not be as critical as some believe, but by the same token its significance has escaped the great mass of many. We would do better to encourage progressive thinking, to train beekeepers to think more like engineers - resolving problems, thinking through consequences, considering received wisdom robustly - and to explore contemporary alternatives which could improve success for bee and beekeeper.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well worth a read on insulation.
https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/201...ust-2019-insulation-cavity-size-golden-hives/

https://oxnatbees.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/warm-hives/

The second link is to work by our very own derekm

 

[Ian123]

Cheers I think finsky is suggesting the other way around. I think walrus is rather spot on with his comments. I was chucking in a point about bog standard wooden hives with thin walls as a bit of a stir, itld says wooden hives respond/start earlier brood rearing and I have found the same with many nucs in wood boxes. I like sunny positions for hives, brood rearing often starts on the sunny wall or shared wall if they are double nucs something you don’t tend to see in poly. I also think there is a limit to any thermal efficiency when the front door is permanently open. And whilst not having had poly for finskys 30 years I’ve only had them for about 15.

 

[Beefriendly]

There are so many other factors to consider, like geographic location and winters. I'm high up and consequently our winters average about 2 degree colder than the lowlands about 4 miles away.
In my trials of 5 wood vs 5 poly over 2 winters where we regularly had -10C temps there was no competition. Never lost a single colony in poly, lost 2 in wooden hives. 1st inspections 5-6 frames of brood in poly, 2-3 in wood. I know the numbers are not enough to be really significant at a proper statistical level.
Note this is in my environment.
A mate of mine has being trying the same in Teesside, but with 2 mild winters and the town being 2C+ warmer than surrounding countryside has seen little difference although he does concede that honey yields where up in poly.

It's a complex equation with no definitive answer for all regions.

 

[Finman]

And whilst not having had poly for finskys 30 years I’ve only had them for about 15.

15 years is to everyone enough to see, what are polyhives.

But that tree trunk I do not understand. No one keeps bees in tree trunk

 

[Erichalfbee]

But that tree trunk I do not understand. No one keeps bees in tree trunk

Oh yes they do

 

[For want of a better word]

Oh yes they do

Bit early for Pantomime Season*.........!!


* Finnie gets confused by our obsession with Panto Dames

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No one keeps bees in tree trunk

Many of us do Finny - but first, you have to saw them up into planks, cut them into manageable bits, then nail them all back together.
Bit of a faff - but bees seem to like them

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bit early for Pantomime Season*.........!!


* Finnie gets confused by our obsession with Panto Dames

One of many examples
https://beekindhives.uk/2015/07/09/making-a-log-hive/

 

[Finman]

Hupsista keikkaa

 

[Finman]

Many of us do Finny - but first, you have to saw them up into planks, cut them into manageable bits, then nail them all back together.
Bit of a faff - but bees seem to like them

Surely they like..... no doubt about it.

One year my neighbour had cottages for gliding squirrels. My Carniolan swarms occupied 5 of his cottages.

I only say: " good heavens".

 

[Erichalfbee]

Here’s a plastic one made of LEGO
https://www.facebook.com/groups/57783666396/permalink/10157414528811397?sfns=mo

 

[Poly Hive]

There is a critical issue here that I suspect many are unaware of.

Bees behave differently in poly to wood. This I know from thirty years + of observation. I can cite many examples but wintering clustered tight to the hive walls is one as is a swarm drawing out the first comb on the foundation next to the poly wall.

Also mentioned is the timber hives starting brooding before poly and this is often used as a lever to say timber is better, even when the poly units in a mixed apiary will brood three weeks later but then rapidly overtake the timber units in strength.

The issue that is overlooked though is moisture in the hive. I would strongly suggest that reading Mobus on Wintering may well be enlightening.

https://poly-hive.co.uk/damp-condensation-and-ventilation-brood-rearing-in-the-winter-cluster/

I will also mention that Mobus "invented" the OMF floor for improved Wintering years before varroa arrive in the UK. He also discovered that top insulation is essential with the usage of the floor. Something that seems to have been forgotten or not understood by many.

PH

 

[Walrus]

Very interesting, thanks PH. I had read that before but always good to have a refresher.

 

[Murox]

Thanks for that PH. I shall "absorb" more in the future. Excellent reading.

 

[Finman]

My hives start broodimg at same time in wooden hives and in polyhives. It depends, when willows start to bloom. If willows start blooming 15.4. , weathers are so good, that they are not able to gather pollen.

First of May is normal time to all hives when they start brood rearing. Actually they start earlier, but they must stop brooding when they do not get pollen from nature.