Poly hives

[Walrus]

True (unfortunately) but it ought not be so. Beekeepers should shelve their personal whims and age-old preferences and choose hive material from the perspective of bees.
If we were to include bees under the everyone label and ask their personal preference, what would be the answer?

Sorry, not trying to be thick, but I don't understand what you are saying? Is it that beekeepers should be forced to all do the same thing? Is it that beekeepers who use wood hives are cruel to bees? Not sure. If it's those things then I disagree!

 

[Ian123]

True (unfortunately) but it ought not be so. Beekeepers should shelve their personal whims and age-old preferences and choose hive material from the perspective of bees.
If we were to include bees under the everyone label and ask their personal preference, what would be the answer?

What makes you think bees select a hive material. They will select a volume cavity but from my experience have no idea about materials it’s constructed with. Even then colonies will set up in the open

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

. Beekeepers should shelve their personal whims and age-old preferences and choose hive material from the perspective of bees.

That's why I use cedar with celotex in the roofs

 

[Finman]

What makes you think bees select a hive material. They will select a volume cavity but from my experience have no idea about materials it’s constructed with. Even then colonies will set up in the open

Bees select often Stone shimney. Makes no sense not even with bee's brain.

And polyhives are really good.

 

[Murox]

That's why I use cedar with celotex in the roofs

Just curious - if you started again would you still choose Cedar and good roof insulation or go poly ?

 

[Finman]

.
Good roof insulation does not make wooden hive better.

 

[WalnutTreeBees]

True (unfortunately) but it ought not be so. Beekeepers should shelve their personal whims and age-old preferences and choose hive material from the perspective of bees.
If we were to include bees under the everyone label and ask their personal preference, what would be the answer?

And what about if we ask the rest of the planet and the future generations of human beings?

Do you want more plastic? Whose manufacturing process produces all sorts of hazardous waste and greenhouse gasses, and which is not biodegradable so tiny particles of you beehive will be blowing across the Earth for thousands of years to some.

Or do you want to cut down some trees in a sustainable way from a nice woodland?

 

[user 6228]

.....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just curious - if you started again would you still choose Cedar and good roof insulation or go poly ?

Cedar, regardless of what the insulation obsessives say - or try to justify

 

[Walrus]

This research was done in the summer (in Turkey!) comparing 3 hive materials:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1828051X.2019.1604088

The higher insulated hives did better (#bees, frames of brood, honey), with the best being a "composit" material which sounds like some Celotex sandwiched between plywood. Poly was clearly ahead of wood, although I doubt that the wood hives had roof insulation.

However, the way I see it, if you are a good beekeeper and control varroa properly, feed at the right time and so on these things will be far more important for your success than what your hive is made out of.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is it that beekeepers should be forced to all do the same thing? Is it that beekeepers who use wood hives are cruel to bees? Not sure. If it's those things then I disagree!

Neither, but those emotive words forced and cruel suggest a defence of the human desire to do as it pleases.

For example, we had a beekeeper (South African) who'd been taught to keep bees in tea-chests. Must have worked in a hot country, suited his pocket, but can't have suited the bees in North London. He didn't consider that, of course, because he (like most of us) was wedded to his system.

If we gave bees a container which most closely matched their natural home, we would serve them best.

 

[ericbeaumont]

What makes you think bees select a hive material. They will select a volume cavity but from my experience have no idea about materials it’s constructed with. Even then colonies will set up in the open

A percentage of nests and swarms get it wrong: fail to reach a consensus, fail to find an ideal spot by late afternoon, get stuck by weather, and any other variable you can imagine.

That they end up in odd and unsuitable places does not persuade me that their prime motivation is not an ideal size, location and thermal efficiency. That they fail to do so every time is natural.

Bees probably couldn't care less which nest material they use, but may care (when given ideal selection options) to choose the one that gives them greatest chance of thriving.

Why does the the human find it difficult to support that?

 

[Walrus]

If we gave bees a container which most closely matched their natural home, we would serve them best.

OK, I understand now. You want to save the bees. I'm not sure honey bees need saving, but I get where you are coming from. I don't think I've yet met a beekeeper that wants to harm their bees; quite the reverse.

I think that the reasons for humans farming (whether it's sheep or bees or whatever) is to strike a balance so that humans benefit without causing harm to their livestock.

EDIT: On re-reading this I sound a bit too feisty - must be the heat - so apologies, I'm not trying to pick a fight or be disrespectful. Funny really, 'cos I use mostly poly hives myself!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm not sure honey bees need saving.

From some beekeepers maybe....,

 

[Finman]

OK, I understand now. You want to save the bees. I'm not sure honey bees need saving, k.

You can stop beekeeping when ever. No problem. Probably you save money in that.

To save bees against varroa , starving, winter, diseases, lack of space, too much space, that hive has a laying queen.

Sp much to save and protect that domestic animal.

 

[Finman]

humans benefit without causing harm to their livestock.

A great idea

 

[Erichalfbee]

If we gave bees a container which most closely matched their natural home, we would serve them best.

What sort of containers do you keep your bees in, Eric?

 

[bingevader]

This research was done in the summer (in Turkey!) comparing 3 hive materials:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1828051X.2019.1604088

The higher insulated hives did better (#bees, frames of brood, honey), with the best being a "composit" material which sounds like some Celotex sandwiched between plywood. Poly was clearly ahead of wood, although I doubt that the wood hives had roof insulation.

However, the way I see it, if you are a good beekeeper and control varroa properly, feed at the right time and so on these things will be far more important for your success than what your hive is made out of.

A nice paper, but again, no indication as to the size or thickness of the materials used.
There's a great variation even in the thickness of the half a dozen hives I have, but they're all lumped in as "wooden".
I know, even only anecdotally, that they behave differently.
And do the findings hold true regardless of the insulating material and it's thickness?
As I've said before, we've steered away from poly because it's not recyclable in our area.

 

[ericbeaumont]

OK, I understand now. You want to save the bees. I'm not sure honey bees need saving, but I get where you are coming from. I don't think I've yet met a beekeeper that wants to harm their bees; quite the reverse.

Far from it, Steve: it's humans that need saving, especially those who aim to save the bees
(spare me) but nonetheless lose them repeatedly.

 

[ericbeaumont]

What sort of containers do you keep your bees in, Eric?

Poly for the last three years and from now on, but ten years ago I followed the rest: used cedar, new cedar, old pine, cedar found in a disused orchard in Kent (still good!), ply hive won at an Essex Conference raffle (now delaminating gently), two WBC cedar hives + bees given by a woman in Weybridge divorcing her husband (awful bees, lovely woodwork), another found empty in a field near Saffron Walden, very good very old cedar supers on eBay...

All usable gear, but I'm not kidding myself that wood is the most thermally efficient (though the WBC persuades me), nor the most financially efficient, possibly not the most environmentally neutral, and certainly not closest to the needs of bees.