pollen patties

[Frisbee]

Did anybody feed the pollen patties or substitutes last year? What mix did you use, as I don't want to be feeding something that will have an adverse effect?

I bought Nektapol from Thorne's, 2 x 1kg packs. I had 3 hives, so I split 1 pack into 3. Some ate more than others. The left overs which I removed eventually and remoulded weighs just over 1lb, so 3 hives ate 5oz or thereabouts each. Did I find it useful? Debateable really. I have a lot of willow around me, but they did eat some of the patty.
Finman has an excellent recipe, but I couldn't source some of the ingredients, so buying was the easier option. I will put more on again this season.

Frisbee

 

[Hombre]

ingredient Pollen substitute patties Pollen supplement patties
Fat free soya flour % 75 60
Brewer's yeast % 25 20
Natural pollen % 0 20
totals by weight % 100 100
From; Beekeeping Study Notes by Yates
The first figure goes under substitute - the second figure goes under supplement.

From BCrazy last year (thank you Hivemaker), I am uncertain, but the pollen substitute is what I used last year and will be using again this year beginning from mid to late February.

I also forgot that I used 2:1 syrup to bind and honey to make it attractive to the bees.

 

[hedgerow pete]

I have always used the same sort of mix as hombre but to mine if i have any i will also add to a 5 kilo mix one jar(1lb) of honey or if there is any about some pollen, last year i did not collect any pollen being to ill to bother to do it properly to the 5 kilo mic i also add one crushed up multi vit tablet, My biggest issue this year is trying to source every thing, for a start off LOW FAT SOYA does not exsist, as i can find it on the internet or in the health food shops not evan at the chinise fod suppliers, which is what i was told to use, cant rember why but i was told not to use full fat?? also brewers yeast My old supplier used to get it in one kilo bags but he has shut up shop so i will have to try again, Every one keep banging on about balko the food supplier but when i phoned them because the dont have a store in brum its somewhere else they only deliver to businesses only not to me or at my home, i tried the local bakery but like many others they only get supplied from there own head quarters with part cooked food that they only have to reheat, so no luck there,

If anyone knows where i can buy small quantities of the low fat soya and yeast from i would love to know , i could evan drive a bit to collect it as long as its not to far away, or if anyone has a business trade set up that will buy from balko , can i buy it off you

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tried that recipe that Hombre lists initially last spring,originally put at the beginning of thread by Bcrazy,the one with 3 parts soya to one part yeast, the bee's did not eat it at all,but eventually chucked it out the entrance,you also need sugar/honey,and add oil if using fat free soya.

 

[Hombre]

Hi Pete,
Holland and barratt in Queens Square(?) West Bromwich, for the soya flour and the brewers yeast powder.

I cannot remember whether the soya is full fat or low fat. Produce of Austria [Neal's yard].

I believe that Finman was able to explain the difference in performance between low fat and full fat soya in the making of patties. I believe it was more to do with the processing and not the oil content.

OK on the multi-vitamin tablet and the honey to make it bee-interesting too. I was making too small a quantity to make the multi-vitamin a viable option last year.

None of it is cheap of course. Anyone with an alternative bulk supplier please sing out and let us all know.

 

[hedgerow pete]

I have just gone from the being of this thread to here again and its great value information, a few of the links dont work but most do, the only thing that i did pick up on was on the one recipe page

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Recipes_for_the_Bees

it mentions using tea tree oil or wintergreen oil, Ii have heard of people using essential oils with bees on many subjects does anyone have any other small ingrediants to use??

 

[Hivemaker.]

Feed Recipes to help control varroa.

Patties – 5 gallon bucket mixture
2 Cups of Yeast
7 lbs of Sugar
8 drops of thyme
15 drops lemongrass
15 drops spearmint

Measure out the brewer’s yeast into a large container. Add your essential oils as measured above. I recommend using an eye dropper for precise measurements. Pour liquid brewer’s yeast into 5 gallon bucket. Add sugar slowly with mixing with an electric drill equipped with a “mud” paddle. Mix until the consistency is that of a thick mushy mashed potatoes. Add sugar or small amount of yeast to get consistency right. In feeding lots of hives I find you can then pour/spoon this mixture out of the 5 gallon mixing bucket into one used for feeding and then continue to mix a new batch in your mixing bucket. If you try and mix too much, you will burn out your drill which is why I recommend mixing in the above measurements.

 

[Bcrazy]

I collect pollen during the season about 6-8 lbs and freeze it to retain the nutritious elements within the grains.

As soon as i get the Hazel catkins open I then make up pollen patties including the hazel with honey from the apiary site. I mix it in a jam pan and put blobs of it onto clean film and freeze over night. When all is ready i pop one dollop into each hive and check in one week, and if need bee top up the patties. I have tasters of this and find it yeasty and sweet, loverly.
This normally happens mid to late Feb when the Hazel shows.

Pollen that is stored and not frozen will over a period of time lose much of its nutritional goodness. I think its about a lose of 50% goodness over one year period.

Regards;

 

[Finman]

.
If you put over 20% pollen to mixture, it is palatable for bees.
Pattys sugar content must be 50% that it does not get mould.

I make dough with dough machine.

3 kg dry irradiated pollen (minimum 2 kg)
0,7 litre water to soften pollen over night
3 kg dry baker yeast
2 kg soya flour with fat or without
1 kg fructose ( or honey if you do not have AFB)
1 kg flour sugar
3 multivitamin pill crushed and diluted into water.
150 mg C- vitamin = Ascorbic acid powder
___________________
10,7 kg total

More to read
http://bees.freesuperhost.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1144910827

 

[Finman]

.
last spring I used this recipe

1,5 l syrup 65%
1000 g dry yeast
300 g irradiated pollen flour (= 6 dl)500 g paketti hedelmäsokeria
300 g normal soyaflour , 20% fat

1 mutivitamin pill
1 C-vitamin or ascobin acid 50 mg
500 g fructose

Fructose keeps patty moist in the hive.

If patty makes fermenting bubbles, add sugar

 

[Finman]

.
Warning wikipatty

Dry Pollen Substitute
Dry pollen substitute can be placed directly into the hive or used in bird feeders to attract local bees.

3 parts (by weight) Soy Flour (expeller-processed soybean flour)
1 part (by weight) Brewers Yeast
1 part (by weight) Nonfat Dry Milk (Not instant milk)

That amount of soya makes patty very hard.
Dry milk is not suitbale food for bees. It has 50% lactose.

Directly into hive or feeding outside - quite a nonsence....

I have never seen that kind of recipe.

 

[BKF Admin]

Would it not be better to have 3 parts yeast 1 part soya flour.

I think some American beeks use a little Marvel for the calcium content,but were do you stop? I have even seen a recipe that has salt added,you could go on for ever adding ingredients.

 

[hedgerow pete]

bcrazy , i like your idea of us going to collect the pollen, whats the basic idea off to the tree with a bag and shake the daylight out of the tree or do i have to be sutble about it??

 

[Bcrazy]

I collect the catkins in buckets as I have an area covered with Hazel.

Then bring the bucket into the house so the catkins can start to dry out.
Once the catkins are ready to shed the pollen (test one by gently blowing on it) the pollen can bee collected in a dry bowl or such container, I flick through with a strong paint brush on all the catkins. Its a bit time consuming but the benefit is for the bees.

Regards;

 

[hedgerow pete]

thanks i will look into that

 

[Finman]

Would it not be better to have 3 parts yeast 1 part soya flour.

I think some American beeks use a little Marvel for the calcium content,but were do you stop? I have even seen a recipe that has salt added,you could go on for ever adding ingredients.

Some cuntries have tested carefully pollen substitues and made patty recipes.
USA made first time 1977.
Australia have made its great booklet.
Canada has too good advices about spring feeding.

Then comes wheel inventors and mix all with their salts and from dad to son knowledge.

http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/nutrition_supplements.htm

From Australia information May 2005 :
https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/05-054.pdf
FAT BEES
SKINNY BEES
-a manual on honey bee nutrition for beekeepers-

 

[Finman]

.
I bye 20 kg irradiated Chinese pollen . it is 12€/kg.

Soya flour is guite expencive, about 6 €/kg.

Dry yeast I get 3 €/kg.

A normal hive eate 500 g patty per week. I feed 8 weeks, so it is 4 kg/hive.
30 hives = 120 kg patty! so,
I need 50 kg yeast.

 

[Finman]

.
If you make much patty, try to get Hamlet soya protein HP 100.
HP 100 is the original quality for milk replacer and other liquid applications.

Other are too coarse and bees cannot eate them.

It is non fat. Add there vegetable oil

http://www.linkan.se/files/pdf/product_sheets/hamlet/hp_for_aquaculture.pdf

Important is amino acid content. It is quite good in HP 100.

Suplier in UK

KingdomPark Tonks Ltd.
48 North Road
Great Abington
Cambridge CB1 6AS
England

Tel.: +44 1223 89 17 21
Fax: +44 1223 89 35 71
e-mail: [email protected] This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Contact person: Mr. Simon Knowles

 

[hedgerow pete]

finman the austrailian document about honey bee nutrition is fantastic, where do you find these things from???

I am going to have a good search on the tinternet foro a soya and yeast supplier but i think i am wasting my breath and finger tips

 

[Finman]

.
Here is another good document from Australia 1996

PROTEIN CONTENT AND AMINO ACID PROFILES
OF HONEYBEE-COLLECTED POLLENS​

http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/Pollenindex.html


Protein and Amino-acids

Protein is not just protein. Protein is made up of separate parts called amino-acids.

Building up body muscle with protein is a bit like building a house. The protein can be likened to the "building materials" as a whole. The amino-acids are like the individual kinds of building materials, such as timber studs, bricks, window glass, nails and roofing iron. However, in the case of protein, most amino-acids can be reconstituted from other amino-acids.

In digesting the protein, the animal can manufacture some of the required amino-acids from other amino-acids that may be surplus.

This is like a builder using a surplus stud for making noggins or a door frame, or some flooring for a brace, or rafters for floor joists. There is a degree of flexibility in how building materials may be used.

However, there are some specific building materials, such as nails or glass or roofing iron or tiles, that cannot be reconstituted from other items.

Not only are these essential building materials needed, they are needed in specific quantities in order to construct the building according to the plans.

It is the same with protein and amino-acids. Some amino-acids cannot be reconstituted from other amino-acids. These amino-acids are called essential amino-acids.


Essential Amino-acids

Some amino-acids are an essential part of the protein digested by the bees, while others are reconstituted from surplus non-essential amino-acids. Essential amino-acids are required in definite proportions of the protein digested as protein.

In 1953 Dr. A. De Groot studied the amino-acid and protein requirements of honey bees and found that they need ten (10) essential amino-acids, at levels ranging from 1% to 4.5% of the protein digested. These results are listed in Table 1.

Table 1: Essential amino-acids for honey bees


Amino-acid Minimum required % of amino-acid in protein digested
Threonine 3.0
Valine 4.0
Methionine 1.5
Leucine 4.5
Iso-leucine 4.0
Phenylalanine 2.5
Lysine 3.0
Histidine 1.5
Arginine 3.0
Tryptophan 1.0

If one of these essential amino-acids is not present in the amount required by the bees, then the bees cannot fully digest as protein all the protein they have eaten. For instance, if one of the amino-acids is required at 4% and is only available at 3%, then only three-quarters of the total protein consumed can be utilised by the bees, as body-building protein.
Analysis of pollen protein has indicated that most of these essential amino-acids are at satisfactory levels. However, Iso-leucine and on a few occasions Valine are below these desired levels.

NOTE Tryptophan is not been found in pollen anylysis , because it does not emerge out. However it is enough in all pollens.