Play cups

[Ailsaboat]

When my nuc arrived a couple of months ago 2 of the frames looked like old(er) comb and on these were what looked to me like play cups - ball shaped and hanging down, mainly on or close to the wooden frame.
(i think these frames were added to increase the number of sealed brood in my nuc)
I've always ignored these, and often thought while doing my notes after that perhaps i should pinch them off.
Anyway. . .
Todays inspection was going really well, my little nuc has now expanded to almost completely fill the BB and as things were much busier than what i've been used to i took it much slower trying to see everthing amongst the mass of bees.
It was then i noticed that the play cups had larvae in them(not sealed)
I thought play cups would be ignored and if it had something in it, it would become a proper queen cell.
Carried on with the inspection, queen seen, plenty of brood at all stages - all seemed ok in my noob experience. Only other slight diff from the norm was larvae in some of the brace comb under the crown board.

So does this sound ok, is it normal for old play cups to be laid in? or are they trying to raise new queens and the existing queen is likely to swarm if i dont do something??

Just to recap, it was a 5 frame nuc that i got about 2 months ago. Supplier said it was this years queen. Been using a dummy board as it expands last 2 new frames went in 2 weeks ago, now a full brood box. No supers on.

 

[For want of a better word]

FERA guidance for the sale of Honey Bee Nuclei states that there should be no active queen cells in any stage of development.

if this would extend to "play cups" or not..........

knock them down and get the nuc into a full sized brood box asap.........? go brood + 1/2 at least!

 

[drex]

Larvae in "play cups"= queen cells = they are going to swarm.

You need to do an Artificial swarm, using whichever method you are most comfortable with.

With the queen laying in brace comb sounds like they have become too congested. Would have been better to have added a super earlier ( usually on 8 frames of brood).

Most colonies will have play cups and they can simply be left. It is when they contain the white milk of food and a larva, that they are showing they are hell bent on swarming.

It takes 8 days before the cell is sealed. The queen will usually leave with the swarm around that time. Do not delay.

 

[Ailsaboat]

Just to confirm they are in a full brood box, did the transfer when the nuc arrived.

Do you think just removing ALL the queen cells at this stage will be enough?

There is one frame at each end of the brood box that is not fully drawn and i've just put the super on with the QE in place

 

[itma]

...
Todays inspection was going really well, my little nuc has now expanded to almost completely fill the BB and as things were much busier than what i've been used to i took it much slower trying to see everthing amongst the mass of bees.
It was then i noticed that the play cups had larvae in them(not sealed)
I thought play cups would be ignored and if it had something in it, it would become a proper queen cell.
Carried on with the inspection, queen seen, plenty of brood at all stages - all seemed ok in my noob experience. Only other slight diff from the norm was larvae in some of the brace comb under the crown board. ...

Were there any empty cells for the queen to lay eggs into?

Lack of space to lay is a common swarm trigger.
I think it sounds as though you have queen cells - swarm cells!
Realistically, an artificial swarm is the only way you would stop them from swarming - and you need a few bits of spare kit for that.
Get help (including borrowing kit) if needed from your local association.
Its one of those beekeeping occasions where patience is not needed - you have to act promptly!
Knocking down the cells might (or might not) buy you a few more days to get ready for the AS. But it won't take them out of swarm mode, if they have gone into it.

Have you read the (free download) Welsh "Queen Cells" booklet? Its well worth looking at.
ADDED - the link http://www.wbka.com/pdf/a012queencells.pdf

 

[Poly Hive]

Play cups are meaningless and can exist over winter in some colonies.

I wouldn't think twice in using a comb with one or two on as part of a nuc for sale. They are meaningless, just handy for the colony if they decide to make use of them.

Note the OP mentions grubs on the CB... just a hint of overcrowding possibly?

This colony now needs to be AS which could have been avoided.

PH

 

[whoosling]

Downloaded queen cells info excellent thanks itma

 

[Ailsaboat]

Thanks itma, that leaflet is excellent - shame i hadn't read it earlier!!
It seems my mistake was the length of time between inspections.
I didn't think they were developing and as someone told me regular full inspections slows down their growth, i made the decision to reduce the frequency, hopefully encouraging them to develop faster - seems this worked too well, along with the change in weather!!
My mistake.
Hopefully i will be able to salvage the situation as the queen is still present.
Thanks for the input eveyone, i'll report back on my emergency AS measures.

 

[REDWOOD]

One of the best reads for new beekeepers, must have read it a dozen times

 

[MuswellMetro]

Downloaded queen cells info excellent thanks itma

Have you been feeding them with syrup?, could be they have filled all the laying space or the sudden flow has caused the same lack of space

its going to be an AS or remove the queen plus two frames into a nuc box with three foundation and take her three miles

an alternative might be to knock the QC down and replace the two undrawn foundation with drawn comb but placing one in the brood area ( but i doubt you have some...could you get some from a friend?). if the undrawn foundation is being worked you perhaps could use that instead of drawn in the brood

Or you just have swarmy bees

 

[For want of a better word]

Or you just have swarmy bees


some unscrupulous bee vendors may sell a swarm in a nuc box... pig in a poke?
I would not accept a nuc with old comb and play queen cups on it... shake and take?

perhaps I am being a bit in-generous here?

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes you are.

If I offer for sale a five frame nucleus it comprises four frames of brood. If on any of those frames there are play cups as I have already said they matter not a hoot. Colonies take them through the winter.... I have seen them on black combs so goodness knows how old they were.

Can it be taken please that play cups are a normal part of a brood comb. They are meaningless until there is a grub present.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

perhaps I am being a bit in-generous here?

Yes you are.

If I offer for sale a five frame nucleus it comprises four frames of brood. If on any of those frames there are play cups as I have already said they matter not a hoot. Colonies take them through the winter.... I have seen them on black combs so goodness knows how old they were.

Can it be taken please that play cups are a normal part of a brood comb. They are meaningless until there is a grub present.

PH

​

Guidance for the Sale of Honey Bee Nuclei...........fera

http://www.fera.gov.uk/healthybeesplan

Is guidance.... but does state there should be no active queen cells in any stage of development

OK if selling to an experienced beekeeperer..... but likes of them and thee, PH, is getting thin on the ground!


heartell of one beek tried to negotiate the price of a nuc down because he did not want any of the drones!

​

 

[george]

A queen cup is not "an active queen cell in any stage of developement" its just an oddly shaped cell on the bottom of a frame. Perhaps we should adopt PH's description of play cup rather than queen play cup ?

Even a play cup with an egg in it is not active , its just an egg in a cell . It becomes active only when there is jelly added to the cup . Then it becomes a queen cell .
G

 

[meetballuk]

I had 2 play cups last tuesday, im really nervous as i havent inspected yet and the weather aint gr8.
do i wait for good weather or brave it today or tomorrow?
will they tare Q cells down if weather is bad?

 

[ma1308]

I have had a cup smack bank in the middle of one of my frames for 3 weeks now its not grown anymore or have anything inside it, the advise I got was to leave alone I have done that and all seem well in the hive.

 

[Poly Hive]

A play cup or queen cup if you like is not an active queen cell.

Goodness knows who is teaching this nonsense but nonsense is all it is.

It is complete tripe, rubbish, a total nonsense.

A play cup with nothing it can do what precisely? Zero, denada, zip, nothing.

I cannot make it clearer than this.

Just think about it.

PH

 

[ma1308]

PH I made a post my first inspection, your reply basically was If it is dry just keep an eye on it and relax and enjoy your bees.

I have done exactly that Thanks !

 

[Poly Hive]

You're very welcome.

The bees appear to consider play cells as an integral part of the brood nest construction. They are though from our point of view meaningless until there is a grub.

PH

 

[george]

Lets hope that puts that one to bed !!!
G