Planning for next year

[Vortex]

RAB

I have the same problem wanting to increase from a single colony. I was given advice similar to the suggestion you made but with a couple of exceptions

1) Wait until the single brood box is well developed, warm weather is expected and the bees are flying strongly
2) when the highest proportion of bees are out flying take off the existing brood box and replace with a new box (I only have undrawn comb)
3) locate the queen and put her in the new box, along with a gentle shake of bees - ie only dislodge flyers. fit the queen excluder on top.
4) add 2 supers then replace the original brood box on top

This should cause them to convert new eggs in the top brood box to queen cells. Monitor then split into 2/3 nucs.

Any advice/comments welcome.

 

[Stiffy]

All good advice.

Stiffy,
I was using 14x12 and my Carni's consistently decided to swarm at 6+/7 frames of brood.

Next year I will be double brooding some of them to see how long I can delay their decision to prepare to depart while still building up strength.

I guess everyone has to find the strain of bee that suits them or adjust their methods to suit, Carnies were not for me

I tried double brooding with a 14x12 and standard national to give space. They still decided they wanted to go with 4 drawn frames. Space was obviously not one of the reasons and I couldn’t work out why they needed to swarm but knew that something had to be done.

I decided that they are not worth the trouble and re-queened all with AMM , not as gentle as the Carnies but boy do they work and bring in the honey and are less inclined to bugger off.
Cheers
S

 

[PaleoPerson]

I guess everyone has to find the strain of bee that suits them or adjust their methods to suit, Carnies were not for me

I tried double brooding with a 14x12 and standard national to give space. They still decided they wanted to go with 4 drawn frames. Space was obviously not one of the reasons and I couldn’t work out why they needed to swarm but knew that something had to be done.

I decided that they are not worth the trouble and re-queened all with AMM , not as gentle as the Carnies but boy do they work and bring in the honey and are less inclined to bugger off.
Cheers
S

My Carnolian queens are currently on death row with the replacement queens already ordered. always swarmed on 4/5 frames of brood with no queen cells made.

If your bees are like this colony, then the best way to split them into three is to plan to keep them as one. They will tell you otherwise and you will end up with three anyway (well actually four in my case).

Just remember, if they are overly zealous to swarm, then any subsequent queens from this stock may also display the same trait with the end result of lots of colonies and expense and bugger all honey.

That said, I do have one queen that is from carnie stock that has done the opposite, 2009 queen, built up well, best honey crop in the home apiary and zero queen cells for 2010.

Oh, and another important lesson I learned this year. I made my plans, the bees made theirs. The bees won.

 

[oliver90owner]

Any advice/comments welcome.

Vortex,

My response was to the OP. The PO wanted a honey crop if possible.

I gave a plan and some detail to do that. Mostly the plans will go downhill from there, if other things get in the way.

1) Wait until the single brood box...

I said feed early and get onto two boxes before splittng. Waiting for the colony to leisurely expand to a full box and then splitting that single box into three has almost certainly reduced the chances of a decent honey crop from any of them.

Splitting a really strong colony would leave one box for honey crop.

2) I only have undrawn comb

There is another big problem for the OP. If starting with foundation and expecting splits to draw comb, in relatively small colonies, is a further waste of valuable time and effort - efficient wax building needs alot of bees, plenty of warmth and a need to build that comb (a flow or feed). Another point where the plan for any honey crop goes downhill.

Hope that helps and you think again about your basic ideas. I think they need some thought and modification.

Regards, RAB

 

[peterbees]

I'm assuming that Boatspeed the questioner, with only one hive, only has frames of foundation.

 

[boatspeed]

Thanks for all the advice, guys! Looks like it's sort-of feasible with luck, cooperative bees and lots of early-season feeding (as peterbees surmised, I have little drawn comb).

Bees will have all Winter to read the plan; unfortunately the only thing I can count on them to do is disregard it, but at least it will give them something to do over the next few months...

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Vergilius]

RAB,

In general do you expand your apiary via collecting swarms or splitting your own colonies?



Ben P

 

[Heather]

An early feed of fondant impregnated with pollen helps kick start a colony.

 

[Hombre]

Hi Ben,

Mostly splits from our own colonies, using queen cells

If mated queens are available then the build up of the new colonies is of course slightly faster as they are able to hit the ground running.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

via collecting swarms or splitting your own colonies?

Ben,

Both! Either will do.

With the proviso that the swarms collected are healthy, productive and reasonably good tempered. But, hey, they are bees; only need to change one - the queen - for the stock to be transformed into 'similar' to the rest. The outsiders will likely be fairly local, obviously, but may bring in lots of new genes to top up the pool. There may be downsides that the stock is from a 'right swarmy' one, but those drones are out there anyway.

Swarms are unpredictable as entities - some years plentiful, some maybe none? So splitting my own colonies is much more predictable, likely earlier than swarms too (one just needs to have mature drones in the hives, and then go for it.

Adding to that, I can select where my eggs/larvae/queen cells come from and can use a selected colony for the nucs or a frame, from wherever I feel they can afford, to make the nucs. I am in more control increasing from within. Having said that, not all of them are going to exhibit the traits I am looking for, but as above, they are all bee colonies and queenie can be replaced later.

Regards, RAB

 

[Skyhook]

One thing I'm still not clear on- I would like to end up with the main hive and a new one headed by new queens from the split, and a nuc which I will re-queen with a buckfast. I'm assuming that trying to time the arrival of the new queen with the process isn't on, so I should let them get settled then re-queen, but whats the best way to supercede the old queen (now 3 years old)? It seems sensible to try to introduce the queen that I take out of the nuc, but is there a better way? And when I do the split, should I put a queen cell in a mating nuc as a spare?

Sorry to repeat myself- but I really would be grateful for any answers on the requeening front, as it's the bit of the plan I'm still not really comfortable with.