Pineboard/lamwood hives

[Katherine]

Extractors - yes they are expensive, I was half hoping you were going to say you had a spanish contact/source of reasonably priced ones.
Are you aware of Dr. Leo Sharashkin's work with Layens hives ?

I'm down on the Kintyre peninsular, near Campbeltown. We get the full force of SSW -> NNW gales when they happen. Rain only comes horizontal hear

Lovely part of Scotland.
Yes I'm aware of Dr Leo, as they seem to call him and of Lazutin. I read the original work of Layens, in French, but it's pre Veroa and could do with updating. I guess the next step is Spanish. There must be books as it is reportedly the most commonly used hive there. Ironically nothing more in French and Dadant is the most commonly used hive here, so no help locally.
I have used a supplier in Spain
Apicola
Colmenas layens the cheapest extractor is just over 200 euros, but for you, the p&pwould probably be ridiculous.

 

[Murox]

It is a great read, and it does indeed contain many useful nuggets.

But in it, Lazutin also asserts that varroa should not be eradicated because they are clearly part of the plan of a "Universal Intelligence"

As to why bees don’t eliminate mites completely, Lazutin speculates that this may be because bees intuitively know that varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies.

So there are some nuggets of pure sh*te in there aswell (he would view your OA sublimation with absolute horror)

Overall though, definitely worth a read. Not sure the super-deep frames have much relevance in the UK's climate though, certainly not for colonies in poly hives.

Yes Lazutin was blessed uniquely living in the Kaluga region. Of course he didn't believe in feeding either but relented in certain circumstances. The size of his hives and frames are also well worth noting. We might find the frames “super deep”, he arrived at the size for the wintering benefits. The principle seems sound to me though. If he was still with us I am sure his ideas would continue to (quote) “shake up the thinking of the independent minded beekeepers in North America and Europe”.

 

[Boston Bees]

We might find the frames “super deep”, he arrived at the size for the wintering benefits. The principle seems sound to me though.

Yes, as you say, he got to the depth (42cm ish) based on 25cm of cluster diameter and 18cm of honey to work through over winter (1mm per day for 6 months). Perfectly logical for his frozen region. Not 100% sure what benefit people in Spain, France, or even England get from Layens hives though. But what do I know, I haven't tried one.

 

[Murox]

Yes, as you say, he got to the depth (42cm ish) based on 25cm of cluster diameter and 18cm of honey to work through over winter (1mm per day for 6 months). Perfectly logical for his frozen region. Not 100% sure what benefit people in Spain, France, or even England get from Layens hives though. But what do I know, I haven't tried one.

Well the deeper frames seem to work well enough in a "long" hive. I've been using ERB frames, basically dadant size turned on end, for the last 3 years. The bees certainly have wintered well on them and make big colonies. As with probably all "long" hives actual honey production seems to be less than in a vertical system, but they provide a surplus for me even up here in a wet windy green desert region.
As to the benefits, Georges de Layens emphasised sustainable beekeeping using local bees and keeping them in appropriate hives that required minimal management. He spent decades developing and perfecting the hive; and a system that enables management of colonies reliably with two or three hive visits per year. Guess it all depends upon your goals and priorities.

 

[HughMann]

..............., Lazutin also asserts that varroa should not be eradicated because they are clearly part of the plan of a "Universal Intelligence"

As to why bees don’t eliminate mites completely, Lazutin speculates that this may be because bees intuitively know that varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies.

Sounds about right.
"varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies" - exactly
Dr Leo - 2.20

 

[Erichalfbee]

"varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies"

Bit like Covid, really

 

[Boston Bees]

Sounds about right.
"varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies" - exactly
Dr Leo - 2.20

On this specific subject Lazutin and Leo are completely misguided.

Wasps have a role to play in culling weak colonies
Winter has a role to play in culling weak colonies
These are positive, natural, Darwinian forces
Varroa, in contrast, makes strong colonies weak.

It tests not so much for strength, but for resistance to varroa (we could debate the extent to which that exists, but that's another thread). It allows various unpleasant viruses to take hold, and it was introduced by man to our bee species.

If varroa is a positive natural selection tool then so is HIV/Aids.

 

[Jb.robert]

Anyone build their hives out of pineboard/lamwood? Any thoughts, seems to be more popular in Eastern Europe but not mentioned on here

I made my hives and frames with Pine. I have a joinery workshop so it makes thing easy.
I followed the standard BS size because I didn’t want to “have” to do it again in the futur.
It worked fine (3 seasons so far).
I made thicker box sides (11frames) so the insulation is better and protected the exterior with beeswax reinforced fence paint (3-4 layers of Cuprinol).
I made special mesh floors with the sliding tray from the front, and thick heavy roofs with galva covers.
After 3 seasons, out of 8 brood boxes and 12 supers, I will not had to plane 2 brood boxes which warped/weathered opening a small crack between the boxes.
I find no problems with pine all in all.
I also made 4 nucs (6frames) in exterior ply with extension brood boxes and extra supers and ekes.
No tin covers but they are less long in the outdoor than the hives.
Only one or 2 stay all year out so I exchange the roofs time to time.
They are treated with Cuprinol too and are resisting fine to weather.

I didn’t have cedar, I just got on with it.

Is it worth it? Well, first of all it’s fun, you have to get involved with it and learn a lot about beespace etc in the process. Secondly, you keep you hard cash and only give away your time.
Materials don’t cost much further more if it’s spare off cuts.

 

[madasafish]

I made my hives and frames with Pine. I have a joinery workshop so it makes thing easy.
I followed the standard BS size because I didn’t want to “have” to do it again in the futur.
It worked fine (3 seasons so far).
I made thicker box sides (11frames) so the insulation is better and protected the exterior with beeswax reinforced fence paint (3-4 layers of Cuprinol).
I made special mesh floors with the sliding tray from the front, and thick heavy roofs with galva covers.
After 3 seasons, out of 8 brood boxes and 12 supers, I will not had to plane 2 brood boxes which warped/weathered opening a small crack between the boxes.
I find no problems with pine all in all.
I also made 4 nucs (6frames) in exterior ply with extension brood boxes and extra supers and ekes.
No tin covers but they are less long in the outdoor than the hives.
Only one or 2 stay all year out so I exchange the roofs time to time.
They are treated with Cuprinol too and are resisting fine to weather.

I didn’t have cedar, I just got on with it.

Is it worth it? Well, first of all it’s fun, you have to get involved with it and learn a lot about beespace etc in the process. Secondly, you keep you hard cash and only give away your time.
Materials don’t cost much further more if it’s spare off cuts.

I made thicker box sides


The nuc at https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachments/c2b163fe-9148-40b6-b016-7d4bd420a7b0-jpeg.23292/ looks normal thickness to me.
Or is it only the hives?


I go the other way: use thinner wood - so lighter - but enclose in a poly cover. My body objects to heavy weights.

 

[Jb.robert]

I made thicker box sides


The nuc at https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachments/c2b163fe-9148-40b6-b016-7d4bd420a7b0-jpeg.23292/ looks normal thickness to me.
Or is it only the hives?


I go the other way: use thinner wood - so lighter - but enclose in a poly cover. My body objects to heavy weights.

Yes only the hives. Walls are 26mm thick.
Nucs are simple 12mm (more intended for swarm catching, or split, or queen rearing, or brood boosters).

 

[madasafish]

Yes only the hives. Walls are 26mm thick.
Nucs are simple 12mm (more intended for swarm catching, or split, or queen rearing, or brood boosters).

I would imagine the hives are quite heavy then.

 

[Goran]

We mostly have hives made of spruce/pine/fir.. Frames are by default all made of limewood. Walls are ordinary 20mm thick.

 

[Goran]

Forgot, some make bottom boards of chestnut ( last longer as they say).

 

[Michael Palmer]

Sounds about right.
"varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies" - exactly
Dr Leo - 2.20

Well, I did my best to listen to this video. Being an American beekeeper, with American Langstroth thin walled hives, listening to this rubbish sort of offends me. Dr Leo is attempting to say the colony perished because the beekeeper used an improper hive. His horizontal thick walled dogma is ridiculous. In my opinion, the colony probably crashed from varroa. Perhaps if he had disassembled the middle brood box we would have seen a bit of mite damaged brood that was present after the demise of the colony. He once again tries to link feral bees caught in swarm traps to some kind of success in controlling varroa and increasing the health of the colony. I would ask the good Doctor to come see an American thin walled Langstroth beekeeper, that selects from quality stock, and who knows how to keep bees in the frozen north....not a rank beginner who doesn't have a clue.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sounds about right.
"varroa mites have a role to play in culling weak colonies" - exactly

absolute tripe

 

[Katherine]

Nice one. Are you making your own frames as well ?
Re 1" douglas fir build - I suggest you make it 2" if your not insulating anything other than the roof. I built a similar box to your first one but used 22mm thick larch board outer - insulation - thin ply inner.
Coming back to you with an aside...How is the nectar flow on the west coast? I imagine the season is very short. I am asking because it is one of a number of places I'm considering retiring to and continue my beekeeping.

 

[Murox]

The season is short and the flow is restricted where I am on the Kintyre peninsular, a lot of green desert with the occasional oasis of a rich glen. Additionally I get hit by serious Atlantic winds. But there are areas that are more sheltered and have richer flora. Most weather and wind comes from the west, the atlantic but the really damaging weather around here comes in from the east.

 

[Katherine]

The season is short and the flow is restricted where I am on the Kintyre peninsular, a lot of green desert with the occasional oasis of a rich glen. Additionally I get hit by serious Atlantic winds. But there are areas that are more sheltered and have richer flora. Most weather and wind comes from the west, the atlantic but the really damaging weather around here comes in from the east.

But you manage to keep your bees and harvest honey?

 

[Katherine]

absolute tripe

Well as a newbee it is certainly fascinating reading the diverse opinions. I look forward to forming my own in due course. In the meantime I'll keep an open mind and try to observe well, listen to the experienced keepers and work carefully and thoughtfully. If Leo has a fault it is making using horizontal hives and swarm catchers look like guaranteed success. Like with any "livestock' this is guaranteed to be not the case.

 

[Murox]

But you manage to keep your bees and harvest honey?

so far yes and a little.