Permethrin

[Curley]

Hi
Does anyone in our community know how to clean kit contaminated with this insecticide?
I look after a small club apiary and have use of a shared container to store our kit. There were a few wasps in the container as it is not insect tight. Someone - as yet not known who - has set off two minismoke insecticide bombs which have covered everything with permethrin insecticide dust. Made up frames etc I reckon to be a write off and a sealed stack of supers should be ok but other kit includes QXs ekes crownboards, dummy boards etc etc etc as well as the colony records, tools and myriad miscellany that you keep in a bee shed. There is also kit for a woodland school group also nicely dusted. I can't think it was malicious but certainly mind numbingly stupid.
I am just trying to keep my temper and work out what can be salvaged and what will have to go. Hard plastic stuff like feeders should clean ok but wooden kit? WOuld I be happy with it even after cleaning? Any informed views out there
thanks

 

[pargyle]

That is a real bugger isn't it ? My understanding is that Permethrin remains toxic for 1-2 days when applied as a field insecticide, it would be sublimated as a fine dust from a smoke bomb and potentially could be absorbed into any porous or semi porous surface. Whether the toxicity will reduce in those circumstances I don't know. You could use a vacumn cleaner to hoover up as much of the dust as possible and wash off the non-porous items with a hose pipe.

You could probably wash off the timber items and on the outside of the hives it may not be a problem by the time they are back in use .. but, and it's a pretty big but, there must be some risk to the bees as it is highly toxic to them.

These circumstances are unusual and you probably need some more specific advice from the manufacturer of the bombs .. and I'm doubtful that they would have come across such a situation. These bombs are normally for use in greenhouses, buildings and domestic premises where there is insect infestation - and the clean up is usually done by the Pest Controller - perhaps you could find one who might give you some clear advice ?

What a stupid thing to do ... even more so if the person who did it is a beekeeper !

 

[Murox]

Hi
Does anyone in our community know how to clean kit contaminated with this insecticide?
I look after a small club apiary and have use of a shared container to store our kit. There were a few wasps in the container as it is not insect tight. Someone - as yet not known who - has set off two minismoke insecticide bombs which have covered everything with permethrin insecticide dust. Made up frames etc I reckon to be a write off and a sealed stack of supers should be ok but other kit includes QXs ekes crownboards, dummy boards etc etc etc as well as the colony records, tools and myriad miscellany that you keep in a bee shed. There is also kit for a woodland school group also nicely dusted. I can't think it was malicious but certainly mind numbingly stupid.
I am just trying to keep my temper and work out what can be salvaged and what will have to go. Hard plastic stuff like feeders should clean ok but wooden kit? WOuld I be happy with it even after cleaning? Any informed views out there
thanks

Not exactly informed, but I read this and it offered some hope.
I do know its not that persistent from using it years ago.

 

[Angularity]

I'm not sure about informed: I have worked in the pesticide industry since 1991, but my main focus is herbicides. However, I know the basics, and I wouldn't keep any of it. My darling wife and co-worker decided she didn't like the wasps in the garage when we were harvesting the honey, so she sprayed the window they were congregating on, with a household permethrin spray. Since then I have washed it down with Fairy, twice, and even pressure-washed it (that's a lot of fun, indoors). It's still killing wasps, and bees; I can see them twisting and writhing on the window ledge. This is four weeks after.

The LD50 for bees is 0.0.98/bee microgrammes from contact exposure. The bigger the number, the safer the product. The LC50 in chickens is >3000mg/kg body weight. That indicates it's safe to chickens but toxic to bees at low concentrations; who'd have thought it. The DT50 is soil is supposed to be <38 days, which means that 50% of it is gone in soil after 37 days or so. Breakdown in soil is usually by microbial action. On hard surfaces as you describe it will hang around a lot longer. You might put the waterproof equipment outside for the wind, rain and UV light to work its magic over the winter. The sealed supers might be OK, but how do you define 'sealed'? If the permethrin is on the wood on the outside, then it's in the wood, and the bees will pick it up as they walk on the outside of the hive.. Again, they might be OK if you put them outside for the winter. Anything steel should be fine if you put it through a dishwasher after washing it first; this stuff is deadly to fish, so you don't want to put residues into the mains if you can avoid it. The records will be fine. Just don't look through them for two or three months, and keep them somewhere sunny.

Remember that this stuff was tested at the same time as the neonicotinoids, when people were just looking for bee death. I don't know if any work was done on the effects of sub-lethal doses, but I doubt it because the authorities were not asking for it and it's shockingly expensive.

The good news is that it's very safe for people, so you don't legally have to take any special precautions when handling the treated equipment. Me, I'd wear disposable gloves. Read the label on the packaging for the smoke bombs before you do anything.

 

[pargyle]

That is a real bugger isn't it ? My understanding is that Permethrin remains toxic for 1-2 days when applied as a field insecticide, it would be sublimated as a fine dust from a smoke bomb and potentially could be absorbed into any porous or semi porous surface. Whether the toxicity will reduce in those circumstances I don't know. You could use a vacumn cleaner to hoover up as much of the dust as possible and wash off the non-porous items with a hose pipe.

You could probably wash off the timber items and on the outside of the hives it may not be a problem by the time they are back in use .. but, and it's a pretty big but, there must be some risk to the bees as it is highly toxic to them.

These circumstances are unusual and you probably need some more specific advice from the manufacturer of the bombs .. and I'm doubtful that they would have come across such a situation. These bombs are normally for use in greenhouses, buildings and domestic premises where there is insect infestation - and the clean up is usually done by the Pest Controller - perhaps you could find one who might give you some clear advice ?

What a stupid thing to do ... even more so if the person who did it is a beekeeper !

Best not to wash the items ... it is a serious hazard when released into water courses ... I've just found the COSHH sheet for the smoke bombs ... puts the fear of God into me ... I know they are always 'worst case' documents but there's enough in there to suggest you need to be really careful with the residue. It has been used for something it was not intended for in completely the wrong way. The items that could have been contaminated should not have been left in there or should have been completely sealed to prevent contamination.

https://www.pestfix.co.uk/images/product-images/IC065 Coopex Maxi Smoke 09.2015.pdf
I rather suspect that you are going to be faced with dumping anything that is going to be used with bees ... or at the best clean it as best you can and then quarantine it for .... well .. who knows? .. 6 months, a year/two years ?

 

[Speybee]

That is a real bugger isn't it ? My understanding is that Permethrin remains toxic for 1-2 days when applied as a field insecticide, it would be sublimated as a fine dust from a smoke bomb and potentially could be absorbed into any porous or semi porous surface. Whether the toxicity will reduce in those circumstances I don't know. You could use a vacumn cleaner to hoover up as much of the dust as possible and wash off the non-porous items with a hose pipe.

You could probably wash off the timber items and on the outside of the hives it may not be a problem by the time they are back in use .. but, and it's a pretty big but, there must be some risk to the bees as it is highly toxic to them.

These circumstances are unusual and you probably need some more specific advice from the manufacturer of the bombs .. and I'm doubtful that they would have come across such a situation. These bombs are normally for use in greenhouses, buildings and domestic premises where there is insect infestation - and the clean up is usually done by the Pest Controller - perhaps you could find one who might give you some clear advice ?

What a stupid thing to do ... even more so if the person who did it is a beekeeper !

Thought for the day .....Permethrin is a head louse treatment ( ask your local pharmacist, next time you venture out)

Have a wee peek at the treatment leaflet if friendly chemist will let you, or ask about how toxic it is.

In all Healthboards in Scotland it is used only on a rotational basis as head lice showing treatment resistance.

 

[Angularity]

If it's these:
https://www.lodi-uk.com/wx-uploads/downloads/files/Insecto_Maxi_145x50_label_V3_.pdfyou need to find out who did it, because they're for use by professionals only, not by someone who's got a mate who works for Rentokil. 'Civvies' using them is an offence. Depending on the size of the container your gear was stored in then using two would also be an offence, unless they were used sequentially, and I can't find what the application interval should be. Post a picture of the empty containers, I know where to look for info like that.

 

[MuswellMetro]

from the web
Breakdown of Chemical in Soil and Groundwater
Because permethrin binds very strongly to soil particles and it is nearly insoluble in water, it is not expected to leach or to contaminate groundwater (24). The binding, or adsorption, of permethrin in soil may be limited to organic matter. Very little leaching of permethrin has been reported (21). It is not very mobile in a wide range of soil types (14).
Permethrin is readily broken down, or degraded, in most soils except organic types. Soil micro-organisms play a large role in the degradation of permethrin in the soil. Permethrin was found to persist for 28 days in organic soils, decreasing slowly throughout the season. It has a half-life of from three to six weeks (10). The addition of nutrients to soil may increase the degradation of permethrin. It has been observed that the availability of sodium and phosphorous decreases when permethrin is added to the soil.

Breakdown of Chemical in Water
The results of one study indicate that synthetic pyrethroids can present a significant threat if they are used near estuarine areas. They tend to bioconcentrate in these environments. In this study, permethrin had a half- life of less than 2.5 days. When exposed to sunlight, the half-life was 4.6 days (15). Permethrin should be kept out of lakes, streams, or ponds. Do not contaminate water by cleaning equipment or by disposing of wastes near a body of water. Permethrin may not be applied when weather conditions favor drift from treated areas (1). Permethrin degrades rapidly in water, although it can persist in sediments (7, 21). There is a gradual loss of toxicity after permethrin ages for 48 hours in sunlight at 50 parts per billion (ppb) in water (14).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

regardless of whether it's safe or not, dump the lot then hand the bill to the witless moron who lobbed the smoke bombs in.

 

[Curley]

Thanks all for your very helpful replies. I think my policy is going to be - if in doubt - chuck it out. I think anything wood that is going to be in direct contact with the bees will have to go,
. The biggy is the supers I'm pretty sure no dust will have got in and I can't bring myself to scrap 12 boxes of drawn honey combs. The supers will be brushed off and stacked outside till next season and then washed and painted before using a few circumspectly on one hive .
I will try and find out who has done it. The host organisation is related to the canals and suspect one of their workers or volunteers has done the deed at the behest of the woodland school people. Not optomistic about getting compensation.

This is the exact thing used - two of them - and it does say for amateur and professional use on the label. Looking them up one dose 120 cubic metres for wasps - the container is no more than 40 cubic metres so 2 is overkill

 

[Angularity]

This makes me so cross. They have broken the terms of the label by overdosing, you'll never get anyone to admit it and if HSE did hear about it, it would just be another nail in the coffin of home and garden uses for pesticides. They already think there is no point in licensing things for amateur use, because they can't trust people to follow the labels, and it's hard to argue with them.

 

[abm]

All Chemicals will eventually breakdown under UV lighting, so leaving out in the sunshine will certainly speed up the process.
Another way is to steam clean them then leave out in sunshine.

I'm deemed as a professional and use these chems all the time, this is what i tell clients who ask "how long does it last"

 

[Angularity]

A pesticide chemist friend of mine has said that washing with bleach should help it to break down. Apparently my use of washing up liquid only helped it to spread. Which I could have worked out for myself if I'd thought about it for more than half a second.

 

[Ystranc]

Bad news, Permethrin, even in tiny quantities will remain in porous surfaces such as timber and can remain effective for 10 years plus... It is very persistent. You may be lucky as this was applied as smoke and not a penetrating solution but washing it may have made it soak in.
The best course of action would be to change the locks on the container to prevent any other well meaning mistakes like this

 

[Curley]

Bad news, Permethrin, even in tiny quantities will remain in porous surfaces such as timber and can remain effective for 10 years plus... It is very persistent. You may be lucky as this was applied as smoke and not a penetrating solution but washing it may have made it soak in.
The best course of action would be to change the locks on the container to prevent any other well meaning mistakes like this

Thanks for this - I am moving rapidly towards the position of scrapping everything wooden. Unfortunately it is a shared space and not ours. I have however in the fallout had permission to erect our own storage so that is a step in the right direction and the new shed will be locked with only club members having access.