Peak Population?

[Stickyfingers]

How do you know when a colony is at it peak given this years weather. What should one be looking for?

 

[Finman]

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At least I do not know. Some has peak at 4 boxes, some has at 8 boxes.

My best hive had 20 frames of brood in the middle of willow blooming.
It is quite big now 1.5 months later. And no queen cells.

I brought at the beginning of May 3 hives to distant yard and yeasterday I took them away to the rape field. They were quite good hives, but place is half day in shadow and place is windy. Hives were almost same size as 2 months ago. Waste of hives...

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[oliver90owner]

Peak what?

Number of bees in the colony, egg laying rate? Honey collection? Give us a clue?

 

[tonybloke]

peak population, it's in the title

 

[the beehive lodge]

LOL (RAB)

 

[oliver90owner]

Tony bloke,

You are right. I rather wrongly assumed this thread came out of the OP's previous thread and was about space in the brood box. I'll leave it up so the vultures can pick it back to the bones.

 

[susbees]

How do you know when a colony is at it peak given this years weather. What should one be looking for?

Not sure I understand the question. If there's room for a frame of stores either side then they don't need a bigger brood box, if there isn't they do. If they have eight frames brood they need a super and when that's full of bees they need another etc.

Peak laying supposedly longest day.

 

[Stickyfingers]

Question refers to peak population of a colony. When does it it reach its maximum assuming that they always have enough space.

 

[Finman]

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Peak question is not essential. Colony needs hight quelity pollen that it is at its best. But it is either essential question.

Our main yield satarts about 25.6 and continues to 27.8.
At 10.8 flovers are gone.

When I start pollen patty feeding 3 weeks earlier than willow starts blooming, I get advantage in early foraging.


When bees forage raspberry or spring rape, those foragers have bee layed at the first half of May.

If the hive suffer in May for chalkbrood, it mostly will be healed in June. That hive will not ready to surplus foraging before August, and then yield is gone.



In old good days beeks talked about "fles hive". They were huge but they did not bring honey. The reason is
- too small cluster after winter
- queen is enormously good layer
- it forages but use all food to expand the hive.

Too small colonies have the same destiny. Their build up is too long and they will loose quite a much valuable yield perios. It depens what yield plants you have on your area.

If the hives are not ripe to forage,
- join hives
- aid small hives with brood frames from big colonies
- mix swarms and brood hives to balanced colony
- take queen off that they stop brood rearing during main yield

 

[Finman]

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An ultimate example:

My friend had a coffee cup size colony after winter. It was Marsh.
At the end of May the cluster has not growed, but it was alive.
It seemed to be healty even if the hive and frames was covered with poo.

Then bigger hives started to swarm. We collected one box of brood frames to the twist size colony. The queen was a good layer and it made 2 boxes brood.

yesterday the hive had 3 boxes and it swelled out. We joined 2 weeks old swarm to the hive with 2 boxes. Then adding one foundation box, and I may sai that it is at its peak. 3+2+1= 6 boxes.
3 mediums and 3 langstroths.From swarm queen (young) we made 2-frame nuc for further needs.

It has just now 50 hectares blooming rape, and it will catch propably 60 - 80 kg rape honey in 3 weeks. After that the yield season is over. The last change to act.

Now the hive has lots of young bees to handle honey and it got a good amount of bees in foraging age.


So the colony reaches a peak in one month from zero to peak. - But this is ultimate situation. Thanks to strong other hives. The hive was strong 2-box winterer in Autumn, but varroa destroyed the colony almost totally.

Is that right or wrong. At least it is a result of beekeeping skills.

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[jackbee]

Tony bloke,
You are right. I rather wrongly assumed this thread came out of the OP's previous thread and was about space in the brood box. I'll leave it up so the vultures can pick it back to the bones.

I think none of us want this uncomfortable situation on the forum to continue so why continually add unnecessary little snipy comments which are obviously meant to draw people into an argument.

I am finding this forum invauable as a newbee but it is quite hard work at time and needn't be. You can give great advice, don't spoil it with the vitriol please and we can all learn.

 

[Finman]

I think

I am finding this forum invauable as a newbee but it is quite hard work at time and needn't be. .

This forum is quite impossible to give good advices to beginners. So another forums too.

The more simple problem the more complex arvices. Many knows nothing but are eager to "invent" solutions. "Shall I keep inner cover open". Why cover is open?

That arquing between men is the game "King of the Heap". Manure heap or what, but King however. It is better stand.


The biggest insult what I see here continuosly, is that I must know British weather. Why, why in the heck! Use more your brains and not weather maps!
I have learned much from Australian beekeeping and from USA.


But beekeepers are not normal humans. They are right, if somebody can bee.
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[nonstandard]

This forum is quite impossible to give good advices to beginners.

That arquing between men is the game "King of the Heap". Manure heap or what, but King however. It is better stand.

But beekeepers are not normal humans.....

LOL so true

 

[mbc]

How do you know when a colony is at it peak given this years weather. What should one be looking for?

A cracking question.
A colonies peak population is the result of a complex set of variables which are skewed out of 'normal' by this years weather.
Essentially the peak ( when the colony has most bees) is reached when the nest has reached maturity and there are the same number of young bees coming through as there are older foragers dyeing. With rubbish foraging weather we are getting colonies full of old foragers who simply haven't had the opportunity to work themselves to death yet, making the peak population stretch a bit for those colonies not forced into swarming and with an undeterred from laying queen.
Of course to all appearances, the peak to our eyes seems a lot later than the actual peak in numbers as boxes full of honey contain far fewer bees than partially full boxes where bees are still working.
Its a scale balance, with the queens laying and the existing nest and population on one side, and the attrition from hard work on the older bees on the other, as to what to look out for, I'm not sure if one could ever put your finger on it, or whether it would have any practical application to know precisely when the "peak" was.

 

[oliver90owner]

Ok, the simple uncluttered anwser is three weeks after the lay-rate peaks ie peak brood size. As mbc points out, ot may not be as simple as that.

 

[Stickyfingers]

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3+2+1= 6 boxes.
3 mediums and 3 langstroths.
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Kuinka monet naista laatikoista ovat pesalaatikoita (eli ei hunajaosastoja)?
Kokemuksesi perusteella, ovatko suuret mehilaisyhdyskunnat agressiivisempia kuin pienemmat? Kiitos.

How many of those are brood boxes?
Based on your experience, do you find your larger colonies more aggressive than smaller ones? Thanks.

 

[Finman]

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All are boath brood boxes and honey boxes. There is no excluder.

But just now the hive has 2 queens brood=3 boxes.

3 weeks time to get yield. Then it is over.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Read Hooper.
Nice little graph in there. Roughly ...Egg laying rate drops after the longest day. Peak bee numbers is 3 weeks after that, so about now. Peak foraging time. Lots of bees and because the brood rearing is reducing, lots of surplus bees for handling honey.

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Last night there was a nice hum from the hives as they were evaporating off the honey they collected. Today they're inside looking out of the window at the rain, eating all of yesterdays honey.