Paynes Winter Sale Started

[Hivemaker.]

I partially went down the 16x10 route to the tune of about 70 hives a few seasons ago but have decided to revert to nationals because I prefer them and for simplicity sake, the last few will be sold off in the spring.

I used to have about 30 commercial hives, long time ago now, but found the bees in the standard nationals out performed those in the commercials with regards size of honey crop, eventually gave all the commercial boxes away to our local bee inspector who wanted to change over to them, after a few more seasons he also decided to get rid of them in favour of the standard nationals.

 

[mbc]

I used to have about 30 commercial hives, long time ago now, but found the bees in the standard nationals out performed those in the commercials with regards size of honey crop, eventually gave all the commercial boxes away to our local bee inspector who wanted to change over to them, after a few more seasons he also decided to get rid of them in favour of the standard nationals.

Yup, same reasoning here, though I've taken terrific crops with my commercial hives in some years, year in year out the nationals edge it for me and my bees.

 

[SDM]

Yup, same reasoning here, though I've taken terrific crops with my commercial hives in some years, year in year out the nationals edge it for me and my bees.

Any theory why that is ? I dont expect your bees are as prolific as hivemakers(maybe they are) I'm wondering if the lower yield would apply to any single box system.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Thornes sale has just started, picked up some cheap frames: http://www.thorne.co.uk/winter-sale

 

[mbc]

Any theory why that is ? I dont expect your bees are as prolific as hivemakers(maybe they are) I'm wondering if the lower yield would apply to any single box system.

A management thing, I have the nationals on double brood if needed and extract honey frames from the top box, also if it's a poor season with intermittent short flows more gets pushed into the supers if they're on single nationals.

 

[For want of a better word]

A management thing, I have the nationals on double brood if needed and extract honey frames from the top box, also if it's a poor season with intermittent short flows more gets pushed into the supers if they're on single nationals.

Thought it was a Amm black bee thing... but have found the same with any type of bees using huge 14x12 frames.... possibly different elsewhere.... acre upon acre of prime forage on borage etc etc.

With thre Rose OSB I found that the exotics were moving the nest up through the boxes leaving the ones below empty.... may have been the weather the beekeeper or on the wrong ley lines!!

 

[B+.]

I used to have about 30 commercial hives, long time ago now, but found the bees in the standard nationals out performed those in the commercials with regards size of honey crop, eventually gave all the commercial boxes away to our local bee inspector who wanted to change over to them, after a few more seasons he also decided to get rid of them in favour of the standard nationals.

What is it about the National that you particularly like?
To my way of thinking, it would be more logical to use a larger frame format on prolific bees (a similar comb area would tend to make larger, more unstable, stacks of boxes or more work cycling through the extraction). How many National deeps do you use as a brood area? My carnica will fill 2 Langstroth deeps in summer so I would expect ~3 Nationals. That is already a reasonable size stack (and more frames to go through during inspections) even without any honey supers.

 

[For want of a better word]

What is it about the National that you particularly like?
To my way of thinking, it would be more logical to use a larger frame format on prolific bees (a similar comb area would tend to make larger, more unstable, stacks of boxes or more work cycling through the extraction). How many National deeps do you use as a brood area? My carnica will fill 2 Langstroth deeps in summer so I would expect ~3 Nationals. That is already a reasonable size stack (and more frames to go through during inspections) even without any honey supers.

Just something I have noticed......

On double brood or brood + 1/2 Nationals.... tendency with a lot of colonies is to inspect with just a tip of the top box... and then only pull a couple of frames from top box to look at. Do not have time to go through every box / frame with a fine toothed comb... as our SBI does!!( Then he is looking for notifyable diseases)

How many of the frames in the bottom box of your stacks are empty of brood/ stores???

Perhaps we should all be going over to the Warre system after all???

 

[Hivemaker.]

What is it about the National that you particularly like?

Everything.

 

[B+.]

How many of the frames in the bottom box of your stacks are empty of brood/ stores???

Perhaps we should all be going over to the Warre system after all???

None. They will pretty much fill 2 Langstroth deeps by June. I tend to leave established colonies as doubles because they back-fill the brood with late nectar/pollen.
I also don't have to run around feeding them in the spring because they have enough space to ripen nectar and pack it away where they want it the previous autumn. I'm not saying this would suit everyone but it works for me.

 

[B+.]

Everything.

It was a genuine question. Not scoring points or anything like that.

 

[Hivemaker.]

It was a genuine question.

It was a genuine answer.

 

[B+.]

It was a genuine answer.

It wasn't very informative though.
You have a fairly large number of colonies so I'm curious how you manage smaller format equipment with a prolific bee.

 

[Hivemaker.]

What is it about the National that you particularly like?

Everything.

It was a genuine question.

It was a genuine answer.

It wasn't very informative though.

How much more informative can an answer to your question above be, I like everything about them, surely that is informative and straightforward enough to understand.

 

[B+.]

How much more informative can an answer to your question above be, I like everything about them, surely that is informative and straightforward enough to understand.

Well, OK.
I prefer Langstroths because they're large enough to accommodate a prolific bee. In summer, they'll expand and fill a second deep but I start them off in singles. A new queen will establish her colony and overwinter with her own workers in that. They will also pack enough stores to overwinter and expand in the Spring. No need for extra feeding.
Queens that will expand and fill 5-6 Langstroth deeps by mid-June (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3907) would need a taller (and possibly unstable) stack in smaller hives.
The only thing that I can think of that might be considered a disadvantage is that they have to warm a larger box in winter, but, my new queens are all on 5 Langstroth frames now so are large enough to keep the queen warm. They don't eat it all either. I usually find 4 combs still packed full in Spring. They use this to expand rapidly.