Paper-unite 3-frame nuc with defensive colony

[RogerIvy]

I need to re-queen a very defensive colony with loads of bees. Interestingly they only filled two frames in the super. Really undesirable genetics.

Instead of doing the usual caged introduction I decided to build a 3-frame nuc with open bottom (see pic), using a frame of brood with nurse bees from a nice colony plus frame of resources and an empty frame.
I've decided to go this route to increase probability of acceptance. This is a horrible hive to open and work with.

The queen was released into the nuc today and I believe/hope all is well. They weren't aggressive towards her at all. We tried not to disturb too much.

My plan is to wait a few days to make sure the defensive colony is hopelessly queenless and to make sure the nuc queen is ok, then do a paper-unite.
To achieve that I'm planning to:

1. simply cut out 100mm x 300mm hole from a 460x460mm ply board
2. place the board on top of the brood box
3. place the nuc over it with a bit of paper
4. make a few small holes as usual
5. let them unite overnight

That's the reason I didn't fix the bottom to the nuc. Easy to place over the hole.
I've done several paper-unites with 100% success, but always uniting two nationals. Never done a unite with a queen in a mini-nuc - but I assume there are no additional steps to take?

Anything wrong with my plan or any suggestions from someone that's done it?

Thanks

 

[enrico]

In this week's bbka mag photo showed brood, newspaper, bottomless nuc on top. Pile supers round the nuc to allow for a roof. I presume you would move following day when United to avoid wild comb

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would wait until the introduced queen was laying well and had plenty of, at least sealed brood, if not her own workers around her..
Dispose of the undesirable queen at the same time as you unite.

 

[RogerIvy]

I would wait until the introduced queen was laying well and had plenty of, at least sealed brood, if not her own workers around her..
Dispose of the undesirable queen at the same time as you unite.

Good advice thanks.
When I said I’d wait to make sure the new queen is ok what I was thinking is to make sure she’s laying well. I was going to base it on eggs, but maybe as you suggest wait for capped brood.

The existing queen has been a massive challenge to find. I’ll write another thread on that. TBH right now we’re not sure if she is still alive - we caught a glimpse of her on a frame we had away from the hive and then she disappeared again. She’s clearly very small and able to get through an excluder. Today we have both eggs and charged queen cells. Anyway, more on that later.

 

[enrico]

Good advice thanks.
When I said I’d wait to make sure the new queen is ok what I was thinking is to make sure she’s laying well. I was going to base it on eggs, but maybe as you suggest wait for capped brood.

The existing queen has been a massive challenge to find. I’ll write another thread on that. TBH right now we’re not sure if she is still alive - we caught a glimpse of her on a frame we had away from the hive and then she disappeared again. She’s clearly very small and able to get through an excluder. Today we have both eggs and charged queen cells. Anyway, more on that later.

Beware, a small queen may be a second one and not the one causing the problems!

 

[RogerIvy]

Beware, a small queen may be a second one and not the one causing the problems!

Yeah, part of the reason we released the new queen to a mini-nuc. Gives us time to find out what’s really going on and deal with the old one.

 

[Ian123]

Yeah, part of the reason we released the new queen to a mini-nuc. Gives us time to find out what’s really going on and deal with the old one.

Can I ask what do you mean by released her? I guess you introduced her in a cage and allowed the bees to release her by consuming the candy?

 

[RogerIvy]

For some reason the bees made no headway through the candy. So given that there were mostly nurse bees I opened the cage and put it onto the bars. She walked out, walked around a bit and went down between frames.

 

[jeff33]

Personally I would wait for your nuc to be established (add a frame of emerging bees if needed) and when it's done, go in the full hive, get rid of the queen, remove frames so you can drop your nuc straight in the middle of the brood nest using air freshener. You can cage the queen for added peace of mind as well.

 

[Ian123]

For some reason the bees made no headway through the candy. So given that there were mostly nurse bees I opened the cage and put it onto the bars. She walked out, walked around a bit and went down between frames.

Yes happens sometimes when the candy goes rock hard!