Oxalic Acid now - pros / cons?

[Finman]

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Normally winter loss by varroa happens so that it reduce the size of cluster. Then winter is too hard to go over when they work the whole winter to keep themselves warm. 5 frame cluster is about minimum to winter.

Our hive fittings do not work either, as I have seen on this week.

We reduce the hives very tight so that bees have not extra space to be heated.
As I see from my many hives, I start to winter hives in two box, but now I see that they have there only two twist size clusters.

Bees eate and eate and produce heat. Finally they burst because of poo, but before that they fly out to die. So the cluster will deminish what ever percent.

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[Finman]

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But how ever, when we go to south, the varroa control becomes more difficult, because there are not allways brood brake.

Hivemaker, You have really been carefull if you have not lost hives for varroa.
Real smart guy!

 

[Finman]

I am just saying varroa control can be done without dosing your bees every winter with oxalic acid. Seems to me that the decision OK?

But please, do not spread that stupid idea. Varroa control must be done every year.

 

[Hivemaker.]

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Hivemaker, You have really been carefull if you have not lost hives for varroa.

When we got resistant mites ten years ago,and i stopped using thymol, i very nearly lost a lot,they were very weak in spring, due to varroa,i suspect the resistant mites had been around longer, and i had been stupid not to see this, I thanked Formic acid for saving the bees back then.

 

[Finman]

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I asked yesterday from our head menthor, why Canadians report big mite losses even if they have used formic acid ten years and they are very experienced.

He said that he has talked with our hard professionals. If you want to kill mites, you will kill eggs and larvae too. In Finland spring treatment does not work because hives lay foragers for main yield. Gasification of formic is not stabile. Too cold or too hot. If formic does not kill larvae, it will not kill mites either. Hot weather spells make bad surprises.

I asked about thymol. He said that it is the same with it. If we got hot spells, it will kill too larvae. It may be catastrope to main yield but results are not so bad in autumn treatment.



yes, Canadian use "flash" treatments wir formic because 3-weeks dose is unpreditable according weathers. 3 days flash treatment and weather is easier to predict.

 

[Hivemaker.]

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yes, Canadian use "flash" treatments wir formic because 3-weeks dose is unpreditable according weathers. 3 days flash treatment and weather is easier to predict.

Yes i also used flash treatments,for the reasons you state,also much quicker,i also have a lot of nassenhieder evaportors,but a lot of messing around time with these.

 

[Finman]

When we got resistant mites ten years ago,and i stopped using thymol, i very nearly lost a lot,they were very weak in spring, then.

I just wrote in another chain this new experience:

I just digged my last hive from snow. To 4 hives I put 6 W electrict heater. Next day bees were around the heater. That I did when cluster was only 2-3 frames.

Now I finally noticed what varroa does to my hivesEven if it does not kill the hive, it seems to kill 50% of my normal cluster size. This is a new phenomenom and connected to using Oxalic Acid..

Previous stuffs were used earlier in Autumn. OA is used when varroa has done allready its dirty job.

I have not used August treatment which protect winter brood production and just emerged winter bees.

Red clover encourage to make big winter clusters but now it makes possible to douple mite load during September - and without treatment. 500 mites move to 1000 mite critical level so easily.

Lazy old fart, something to learn again. But it takes its own time to convince myself...

What to learn on my latitudes, OA alone do not protect colonies.
It is grazy to loose half of cluster to mites
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[oliver90owner]

But please, do not spread that stupid idea. Varroa control must be done every year.

You really are very - err wide - at times. It is really very stupid on your part to even suggest that I advocate not doing varroa control every year - I do. Everyone reading this thread will clearly understand that what you say is talking nonsense and the must be laughing at your incredible attemts to get out of your hole. Keep digging.

You will note the emphasis in that sentence, you so conveniently emboldened, was on the every. You are trying, yet again, to twist words, or cannot read the English language properly. Try reading it as "I am just saying varroa control can be done without dosing your bees every winter with oxalic acid.

I do it, Hivemaker says he does it, and I would not be surprised if there is quite a large minority that do not dose their bees everyyear with oxalic acid. They are likely silent so that the do not get involved with your word twisting.

Good day. I have had enough of your rubbish on this thread for the rest of today. You can talk to yourself on the subject for the remainder of the day.

Sounds like more of my bees are alive, without dosing with oxalic, than yours which you have dosed. Perhaps that tells us something.

 

[boca]

..Everyone reading this thread will clearly understand that what you say is talking nonsense ...

Oliver, in your several thousands of posts I have not found any useful information that makes me better understand our mysterious insects.

Above all Finman's posts made me possible to start up successfully my little apiary.

 

[Finman]

but please, do not spread that stupid idea. Varroa control must be done every year.

you really are very - err wide - at times. It is really very stupid on your part to even suggest that i advocate not doing varroa control every year - i do. Everyone reading this thread will clearly understand that what you say is talking nonsense and the must be laughing at your incredible attemts to get out of your hole. Keep digging.

You will note the emphasis in that sentence, you so conveniently emboldened, was on the every. You are trying, yet again, to twist words, or cannot read the english language properly. Try reading it as "i am just saying varroa control can be done without dosing your bees every winter with oxalic acid.

I do it, hivemaker says he does it, and i would not be surprised if there is quite a large minority that do not dose their bees everyyear with oxalic acid. They are likely silent so that the do not get involved with your word twisting.

Good day. I have had enough of your rubbish on this thread for the rest of today. You can talk to yourself on the subject for the remainder of the day.

Sounds like more of my bees are alive, without dosing with oxalic, than yours which you have dosed. Perhaps that tells us something.

In Finland varroa control advices are just that big what you wrote above.
What a waste of words............

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[Cazza]

With the greatest respect, dangling a management not involving Apiguard or Oxalic in your posts and then refusing to give any pointers regarding it is like telling a joke and then refusing to tell the punch line!


Not at all. There is no set regime. Get it? Read the DEFRA publication on varroa control. There is absolutely loads to go at. Just use your head and decide what is best at the time and when it is required. How simple can it get? I know it is simpler to pour oxalic acid over the bees in winter, whether or not they need it, just in case, etc, etc because that is what it amounts to. How can I put it simpler than 'dummy doing as it is told'.

The only difference is that I use thymol in a slightly different way to most (and that includes Hivemaker) and would not expect the 'rest of the world that is incapable of thinking' to make the required simple decisions. Following the instructions on the Apiguard packets/sachets/boxes seems to be too much for some of our posters, let alone interpreting my decisions.

But, there we go, the simple fact is that you don't have to trickle oxalic acid in the middle of winter, every winter.

I wondered what would happen to this thread whilst I was away and I see it became somewhat feisty.

For myself, I wasn't asking for a "do this, do this, then do this..." Beekeeping for Complete Plonkers guide, merely a list of possibilities in case I am missing something in my management repertoire.
Clearly there should be no "set regime", I would take that as a sine qua non. Personally I have only used Oxalic once in the past ten years and that was this winter.
Cazza

 

[Finman]

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"Get it and read it, DEFRA booklet."

In this forum there are more pages about oxalic than pages in Bible.

15 years usage trickling and now "pros and cons"

 

[oliver90owner]

Bye bye Finman, for this thread. You seem to have a friend in Helsinky, go talk with him. If I were you I would cherish that. Personally I can't even remember what he has posted, so nothing at all interesting.

The advice is, of course, for UK beekeeping - not for places far distant with differing practices, conditions and such like. There are also a lot out there who would also say his comment was not worth the trouble and not true.

I see from the post just above, there is yet another who has not doped their colonies with oxalic acid in the depths of winter every year over the last decade. They will slowly appear from the woodwork. I know of several. Bye....

 

[Finman]

Bye bye Finman, for this thread. You seem to have a friend in Helsinky, go talk with him. ....

Well, Oliver. You are recovered

Jep. A good idea. He is from Hungary and working here.
Last he wrote that I live on my own planet. ...hmmm. I have no own planet. At least I have noted.


If I were you I would cherish that. Personally I can't even remember what he has posted, so nothing at all interesting.

....

The advice is, of course, for UK beekeeping - not for places far distant with differing practices, conditions and such like.....

Look here. This home page is dated 2.3.2006
http://www.agroscope.admin.ch/imkerei/00316/00329/04435/index.html?lang=en


This varroa Research Group made a 2 years project report , date January 1999

Look varroa group Countries
In every country they use same control methods!!!!!! - Best in the world!!!!!!!


Spain
Italy 3 persons
France
Switzerland
Germany 4 persons
Neatherlands 2 persons
Denmark 2 persons
Sweden
Finland

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[Finman]

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The top

 

[ksjs]

Wow - 8 pages, I will have to read through this to get a full flavour...

4 days and a count of 3 varroa in the hive. I plan to count another 3 days and so have a full week but, assuming this rate continues, what are people's views on this count?

Annoyingly, I noticed some chalky carcasses on the varroa board - I was hoping this might have gone. The hive superseded last autumn and while I did spot the original queen after this I do wonder if the new queen might be in charge.

On a more positive note, last Thursday was glorious here and the bees were flying strongly bringing back what I assume is gorse pollen (flowering locally at the moment). When do people consider a colony to have made it through the winter and be in good shape for the year ahead?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When do people consider a colony to have made it through the winter and be in good shape for the year ahead?

When they're still alive and healthy in the spring?

 

[For want of a better word]

When they're still alive and healthy in the spring?

If dipped, dripped, vaporised with Oxo or not it would seem !!


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