Overwinter queens in mini Nuc

[drstitson]

overwintering

"When it is so easy, why don't you rear enough Br. queens for spring?"

presumably in light of the significant colony losses over last few years AND "severe" winter weather, UK beeks are (perhaps wrongly) preoccupied with ensuring that all colonies that go into winter are as strong as possible and hence lots of autumn requeening/uniting etc. etc.

Any advice on a (more sensible) approach to reliable overwintering whilst also maintaining ability to increase/improve is greatly appreciated. Although it might require a change in emphasis re bee strain if UK beeks are to go down this route.

 

[Poly Hive]

This is the British Beekeeping gorgon knot.

The beekeeper wants to have mated queens as early as possible to make increase.

Yes I know you many not want to as in individual but an awful lot do or replace winter losses.

So. How do you get round this issue with out struggling with early drone raising or buying in a foreign strain?

In my view you have to think through a prejudice which is a taught one.

Which is that a 2nd year queen is more likely to swarm. This is indeed true.

However it assumes that the 2nd year queen has been heading up a full colony in year one. If in fact she has been confined to a nuc and has been "ticking over" for three months she has barely got out of first gear.

From that I find that an over wintered queen in her first year of heading a full colony is just as prone to not swarming as a first year queen.

PH

 

[drstitson]

PHeromone exchange

great - you've partially answered a query that had come to me whilst reading in the smallest room.

that is, when referring to 1, 2 or 3 year old queens does one mean chronological age or number of seasons?

 

[mbc]

This is the British Beekeeping gorgon knot.

The beekeeper wants to have mated queens as early as possible to make increase.

Yes I know you many not want to as in individual but an awful lot do or replace winter losses.

So. How do you get round this issue with out struggling with early drone raising or buying in a foreign strain?

In my view you have to think through a prejudice which is a taught one.

Which is that a 2nd year queen is more likely to swarm. This is indeed true.

However it assumes that the 2nd year queen has been heading up a full colony in year one. If in fact she has been confined to a nuc and has been "ticking over" for three months she has barely got out of first gear.

From that I find that an over wintered queen in her first year of heading a full colony is just as prone to not swarming as a first year queen.

PH

Spot on , queen age should be measured in amount of laying theyve had to do rather than anything else, they have much shorter life spans in countries with longer seasons

 

[Hombre]

This is the British Beekeeping gorgon knot.

You'll have, the Gorgon, Medusa getting her hare in a nut with statements like that.

Perhaps the Gordian knot approach is the right one. Reassess the problem and take swift cutting edge action. It may or may not be what you meant, but that's not for me to say.

My earlier NO, wasn't a backing out of anything.

Perhaps I had been overly indirect or tacit in my original expression. To put it another way, I would be more than happy to gamble with all your money and only a little bit of my own.

To encourage bee farmers, for example, to take large risks because it will improve the quality of their remaining stock is hardly one that would elicit feelings of deep gratitude from that particular community

A nationwide takeup of the idea would decimate colony numbers in the UK and there would be willing suppliers of imported bees and honey to make up the ensuing sortfalls.

Am I up for it. errr, NO! Idealistic as the ideas might be, personally I am a fully paid up sceptic.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well lets have a think here.

I suggested 25% as it is a realistic figure to build back from, ie the apiary would still have 75% to recoup losses from.

The Bee Farming community is under quite different pressures and will take what ever measures they need to to stay in business.

Our situation is quite different and I for one cannot see what the problem is with risking 5 out of 20 units. If a beekeeper is so incompetent they cannot replace that number they have serious problems.

As is being said in the thread it will take sacrifices to get anywhere on the basis of resistance.

PH

 

[mbc]

Sacrifice might come in the form of beeks stumping up decent amounts of cash for overwintered british queens then it would be more feasable to resist all the imports and more viable to weather the costs of overwintering large numbers of queens

 

[Poly Hive]

FWIW I intend charging pretty much the same for an over wintered nuc as I did for last years Nuc. Same product but actually enhanced in value as the queens are winter proven.

PH

 

[beebreeder]

But what about the extra costs that you have incurred, varroa treatment, extra winter feed etc etc, traditionally overwintered nucs are more expensive for that reason and the fact that the queen as you say is proven.

 

[Poly Hive]

Good point actually so I'll bung on another £50 and see how the market goes in April.

PH

 

[Hombre]

Global warming revisited

FWIW I intend charging pretty much the same for an over wintered nuc as I did for last years Nuc. Same product but actually enhanced in value as the queens are winter proven.

PH

Good point actually so I'll bung on another £50 and see how the market goes in April.

PH
__________________
"Bees do nothing invariably."

I'm sure that there will be a lot of clamour and demand for early nucs..What's that £170?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was thinking of making a feeder to go in the top section so the hive becomes 8 frames(2x4frames and two feeders one on each level, big problem will be re-filling bottom feeder, other option is 6 frames in the bottom and a larger top feeder,




I am also trying to thymolise fondant, if anyone has any ideas?!!!!!!
kev

hi beebreeder, did you get anywhere with this?

 

[beebreeder]

Quick answer, I am still experimenting, I have tried cutting a specified weight of fondant and allowing it to dry out a little, then warming it and adding thymol by ratio in a sandwich bag, but the big qestion is how far does the thymol penetrate? I suspect not far, if I syringe it into the fondant then its stronger in the centre. The only real answeris to make your own and add thymol at the mix stage, I am not going to do that as i have to many to feed.
kev

 

[Hivemaker.]

Kieler mini nuc's are looking good so far,flying well at the moment, with quite a lot of pollen being collected.

 

[Poly Hive]

Good grief none of my colonies has been out for pollen let alone the wee ones

Good your sites.

PH

 

[jezd]

Kieler mini nuc's are looking good so far,flying well at the moment, with quite a lot of pollen being collected.

Down to my last 3 mini-nucs here from about 6, rest starved due to cold and not being able to move over frames - they were tiny mind.

 

[beebreeder]

Likewise, we have catkins out here amongst other things and when its warm enough they ar out, sometimes it seems too cold but they are still out, sure sign there be some brood inside.
kev

 

[blackbrood]

Kieler mini nuc's are looking good so far,flying well at the moment, with quite a lot of pollen being collected.

very nice indeed. a big perk of being down South

 

[jezd]

Latest update.

Bad news first, we lost most of the mini nucs, in the end each died due to size and not being able to move across the frames to the stores. If I have spares queen at the end of this year I will do it again but make sure they are rammed with bees and have top feeders down the spine of the mini nuc.

The good news is one mini nuc is doing very well, it has bees across 3-4 mini frames and bringing in pollen today too.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Kieler mini nuc's building up well now,will get these queens removed and into five frame nuc's, soon as drones are emerging