Overwinter fondant stores

[paul4848]

Hi, maybe a silly question but here goes: had a look at the hives last good day and all full of stores that will be containing fondant. How do you go about making sure all fondant is eaten and not transferred into supers then mixed with honey… sure there’s a simple answer… or do you just not worry about it? Thanks

 

[ericbeaumont]

making sure all fondant is eaten and not transferred into supers then mixed with honey

You can't, but bees are unlikely to move capped stores up.

If you did want them to move stores, crush the cappings with a hive tool.

If the BB has more than the equivalent of two full frames of stores, take out the excess and keep it for nucs, or to return at the end of summer. Give foundation in return to allow the nest to expand.

 

[Ian123]

Hi Paul most of us only feed fondant during the winter period although some do feed large blocks in Autumn. Over the winter imo little is actually stored but used as needed. Not that it really helps as large amounts of sealed stores could also be Autumn fed syrup, so still sugar.
Personally I find bees reluctant to suddenly move large amounts of sealed stores up into your supers.
I’d suggest removing some of these store frames and storing for nucs or swarms.
Bruising the cappings on sealed stores and pushing up against the brood area does encourage its use and possibly a little movement.
Also next year only add fondant to those noticeable getting light, there’s no problem being cautious but be realistic with its use. If you remove a few frames encourage the use of others I’d suggest you’ll not have anything to worry about.

 

[Swarm]

I fully expect to be removing a few frames from my landowners hives, he does like to feed bees and told me his should be alright as he put fondant on last week. Yes I did find comb drawn up into the fondant bags when I lifted the roofs.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Paul most of us only feed fondant during the winter period although some do feed large blocks in Autumn. Over the winter imo little is actually stored but used as needed. Not that it really helps as large amounts of sealed stores could also be Autumn fed syrup, so still sugar.
Personally I find bees reluctant to suddenly move large amounts of sealed stores up into your supers.
I’d suggest removing some of these store frames and storing for nucs or swarms.
Bruising the cappings on sealed stores and pushing up against the brood area does encourage its use and possibly a little movement.
Also next year only add fondant to those noticeable getting light, there’s no problem being cautious but be realistic with its use. If you remove a few frames encourage the use of others I’d suggest you’ll not have anything to worry about.

There seems to be a propensity for people to be almost continually feeding their bees - syrup from the end of August, massive blocks of fondant on top of the hives all the way through winter and then putting another feeder on with syrup because they need it to build up in Spring ... I hear this all the time and I've no idea where these stupid ideas come from.

A decent bee colony should be able to provision themselves for winter if they have the space and are given the opportunity to forage whilst there is still forage available. Fondant is your best friend in Spring if they get it wrong, you get it wrong or the autumn and spring weather contrives to run them out of the honey they have stored. But, IMHO, fondant is there for when it is absolutely necessary and the bees are in danger of starvation ... not in the way it appears to be used by some.

 

[JamezF]

A decent bee colony should be able to provision themselves for winter if they have the space and are given the opportunity to forage whilst there is still forage available. Fondant is your best friend in Spring if they get it wrong, you get it wrong or the autumn and spring weather contrives to run them out of the honey they have stored. But, IMHO, fondant is there for when it is absolutely necessary and the bees are in danger of starvation ... not in the way it appears to be used by some.

Indeed. I rarely feed my bees. If it's obvious they're struggling then I will, or if I've knowingly put them in a situation where they're likely to run short of stores, but in the main I leave them sufficient space for storage and they manage through the winter quite fine by themselves (and in fact I sometimes find myself having to remove combs of honey to ensure the queen has room to lay in the Spring.

James

 

[drex]

Feeding is a balancing act. Not fed for several years. Used fondant once this winter as without it would have starved

 

[Moody]

You can't, but bees are unlikely to move capped stores up.

If you did want them to move stores, crush the cappings with a hive tool.

If the BB has more than the equivalent of two full frames of stores, take out the excess and keep it for nucs, or to return at the end of summer. Give foundation in return to allow the nest to expand.

What is best method of storing the store frames?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I prefer mine in the freezer. I stored a brood box of stores in a cold shed this winter and they are all mouldy on top of the cappings.
One of the first things I bought for beekeeping when we moved here was a chest freezer.

 

[ericbeaumont]

storing the store frames?

If you don't have a freezer (I don't) make sure vermin can't access the box, and if there's a hint of pollen in the combs, wax moth will be in.

Dipel or Bruco is the answer, but at £60+ delivery you'd have to share it with others.

https://www.progreen.co.uk/dipel-df-500g-biological-control-of-caterpillars/

 

[The Poot]

Feeding is a balancing act. Not fed for several years. Used fondant once this winter as without it would have starved

It is. One colony which had a super of honey left on, plus additional syrup feeding, has needed a lot of fondant early Spring. They never got into a tight cluster, unlike the one next door. On inspection, I needed to give them a frame of honey from their neighbour - very little sealed stores, but there was evidence of nectar coming in.
Next door was the opposite - tight cluster and very little stores used.

 

[drex]

Yes, I am always amazed at how different adjacent hives can be. All the same locally reared queens ( and therein probably lies the major reason)

 

[ericbeaumont]

Feeding is a balancing act

Easier done in double brood, 14x12 or Langstroth, where there's space for both a strong colony & 40lb.

Single Nationals are more tricky and novice beekeepers worry (I did) so leave a super on top (the worst choice) or nadir (better) and add fondant when it may not be needed.

Balancing the scales by taking it out in spring should be taught more widely.

 

[paul4848]

Hi Paul most of us only feed fondant during the winter period although some do feed large blocks in Autumn. Over the winter imo little is actually stored but used as needed. Not that it really helps as large amounts of sealed stores could also be Autumn fed syrup, so still sugar.
Personally I find bees reluctant to suddenly move large amounts of sealed stores up into your supers.
I’d suggest removing some of these store frames and storing for nucs or swarms.
Bruising the cappings on sealed stores and pushing up against the brood area does encourage its use and possibly a little movement.
Also next year only add fondant to those noticeable getting light, there’s no problem being cautious but be realistic with its use. If you remove a few frames encourage the use of others I’d suggest you’ll not have anything to worry about.

Thank you for that information.. I think I will take some frames out for the swarms if needed. I probably did overdo the fondant over the winter and certainly fed as much as possible with syrup back end. Yesterday I had a look in one of them and felt best to add a second BB to give space and moved some stores up into this. Some of the brood are on frames that are mishapen and thick… not too sure how to rectify that . There was maybe not enough frames in BB over winter (9 frames instead of 10/11).

 

[Ian123]

Thank you for that information.. I think I will take some frames out for the swarms if needed. I probably did overdo the fondant over the winter and certainly fed as much as possible with syrup back end. Yesterday I had a look in one of them and felt best to add a second BB to give space and moved some stores up into this. Some of the brood are on frames that are mishapen and thick… not too sure how to rectify that . There was maybe not enough frames in BB over winter (9 frames instead of 10/11).

There’s no great issue with providing excess stores and plenty of hives have died of the reverse!….But you should be prepared to get into the hives and remove. But as has been said above just be sensible about it, it’s a cost in both time effort and feed.
My excess frames go into nucs and they are a great resource.

 

[SWEET]

I feed blocks of fondant in autumn, either consumed or left and removed by me in March. Once things fire up the bees clear the BB or I'll remove and place in Nucs or storage for later/winter xyz etc.