over wintering on fondant

[garethjbarry]

I have been thinking about overwintering using fondant rather than feeding syrup this year. I would like any advice from anyone who does this on how much they need to get through the winter and how you configure the hive to get the fondant in there. Any info would be much appreciated.

 

[oliver90owner]

Is this autumn feeding with fondant or relying on fondant as their winter energy supply? A subtle difference.

 

[enrico]

I think you need to put one whole pack of fondant , 12.5 kg directly on top of the brood frames, and have another as standby
E

 

[oliver90owner]

Enrico,

That is well over 20kgs of sugar per hive. Who feeds that much on average. I most certainly don't.

RAB

 

[enrico]

Fair comment RAB, More than a slight over estimation on my part but I would still put a full pack on to start with and see how it goes,
E

 

[davnig]

I think you need to put one whole pack of fondant , 12.5 kg directly on top of the brood frames, and have another as standby
E

I think you mean 2.5KG - weight of single pack

 

[oliver90owner]

There is an outside chance he meant to say put half a pack on each hive, but most certainly not 2.5kg. Enrico is far more clever than that.

 

[drstitson]

"I think you mean 2.5KG - weight of single pack"

nope - he meant 12.5kg - the weight of a single standard catering block (from whatever source).

i use 4-6kg chunks on top of single BBs in winter if they need it. so if they are assumed to be running into winter w/o top up syrup in autumn then, depending upon hefting weight, i would agree that a full block would be prudent.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I have been thinking about overwintering using fondant rather than feeding syrup this year. I would like any advice from anyone who does this on how much they need to get through the winter and how you configure the hive to get the fondant in there. Any info would be much appreciated.

I use bakers fondant, which I get from a local baker. It comes in 12.5kg blocks and currently costs £12.50 per block.

Last year I just cut each block roughly in half, through the plastic wrapping which I rearranged to help stop it drying out. I gave one large lump of the stuff to each colony - roughly 6.25kg. There was quite a lot left when the spring nectar flow started. One colony only used about a kilo.

I put it above the feeder hole above the brood box, and had a heck of a job scraping it off the board in the spring. I cut a hole in a piece of kingspand for it to sit in. The fondant can go directly on the top of the brood frame bars, but some people place it onto the queen excluder to make it slightly less messy to lift when treating with oxalic acid. Bees easily get at it through the QX bars.

I also gave each colony a couple of litres of thymolised syrup which I understand helps deal with Nosema - it seemed like a good idea at the time.

As the others have said, the amount you give will probably depend on how much stores the colony has within the brood box, and whether or not you've harvested honey from the brood frames.

 

[garethjbarry]

My plan had been to use the fondant as their sole food supply (and any stores in the brood chamber). I have a bakers who is going to order me a 12.5kg block and I have two hives so is this enough? I plan to use OA in the winter so putting it on a queen exclude sounds like a must.

 

[REDWOOD]

So just to add to garethjbarry post are there any advantages in using just fondant

 

[drstitson]

as per BJF - the autumn syrup feed is not only cheaper than fondant (80p a kilo for the sugar) but more importantly allows you to give a dose of thymol, possibly helping to prevent nosema.

and not taking syrup down is also a red flag - suggesting something may be awry in the hive.

 

[drstitson]

the obvious advantages of fondant alone is for those with distant out apiaries that they wish to shut up and leave alone.

 

[enrico]

I wrote my original answer without really thinking about it... Sorry, I don't usually do that. I have never used fondant alone myself but I know a man who has. I had a recollection of him putting two bakers packs on side by side but thinking about this he must have split it into half and put the two halves side by side, he did it this way so there was no space above the frames. He left them in their blue plastic with splits in and probably on a QE for strength. Although for some reason I don't remember seeing that and thought he had them directly on the top of the frames. I guess any left overs can be used but he seemed to think that doing it this way he never had to feed again all winter or worry about emergency spring feeding. Unfortunately he is no longer with us so I cannot check my facts.
It seemed like a really good way of no fuss feeding to me! But..... I prefer to leave honey so have never had to use it to that extent. Sorry if my first post was misleading! I must think before I use my fingers!
E

 

[REDWOOD]

I must think before I use my fingers!


We are all accused of doing that......... here I go again, edit... most of us

 

[garethjbarry]

I probably should have added that I have ripped out my kitchen so knocking up loads of sugar syrup is not that practical hence fondant. Plus I dont mind spending an extra £5 for fondant and saving the time taken to make sugar syrup

 

[BeeJayBee]

My plan had been to use the fondant as their sole food supply (and any stores in the brood chamber). I have a bakers who is going to order me a 12.5kg block and I have two hives so is this enough? I plan to use OA in the winter so putting it on a queen exclude sounds like a must.

In my experience the 6.25ish kg is more than enough for one colony along with whatever is in the brood box, but somebody will come along and tell you it isn't enough.

The danger time isn't usually the middle of winter, it's if there's no natural nectar available in the spring or if the weather is too bad for them to forage.

I know people who make their own fondant, but time taken + use of cooker probably makes it cost about the same as buying it from a local baker. There's also the risk of overheating it, which turns it into an unusable waste of money!

Fondant is fiendishly sticky stuff. Wrap the top and sides with either plastic or foil. You can wrap across the base too, leaving a slit rather like with a tissue box. Put the slit at 90 degrees to the top bars, so there's maximum access.

the obvious advantages of fondant alone is for those with distant out apiaries that they wish to shut up and leave alone.

Not just distance, but weather can make checking colonies a bit difficult even if they're fairly close to home.

If there's a heather crop it may get too cold too soon afterwards for syrup feeding to be a viable option, and fondant is less work for the bees because they can eat it without needing to process it further.

Another benefit is that fondant doesn't go mouldy or ferment, which syrup can do if the proportions are wrong, although it can dry out if it isn't properly wrapped. (plastic containers will do)

There's this page about feeding fondant, where the writer gives a whole block per colony. No mention of leftovers in the Spring http://www.stratfordbeekeepers.org.uk/PENotes/Fondant.htm

 

[BeeJayBee]

But..... I prefer to leave honey so have never had to use it to that extent.

I leave them whatever is in the brood box, but they don't always have time to backfill those frames when the brood area reduces. In a heather area syrup feeding isn't always an option, because it can get too cold for them to process it very soon after the heather crop is harvested. It could be one reason why some people, in what are meant to be the warmer parts of the country, lose colonies through starvation - syrup goes on, bees don't take it all, so the less experienced just assume their bees have got enough food to last through to next year.

I got my colonies in a January from an apiary near the sea, I could move them with one finger. If I hadn't bought them, and given them a load of fondant, I think they would have starved within a very short time.

 

[drstitson]

"Not just distance, but weather can make checking colonies a bit difficult even if they're fairly close to home."

i'm not necessarily meaning checking/opening - rather the repeated trips to top up feeders during sept/oct/early nov.

 

[jackstraw]

Syrup now, fondant later

I believe that best practice is to give a strong syrup now and a block of fondant as emergency energy store for use in mid winter or early spring

In the lead up to and during Autumn the bees will want to store away any syrup/fondant received. They will add/evaporate water to make the sugar replicate honey with 18% water content. Therefore give a syrup as strong as you can get it - in the case of fondant they will need to go collect water to make it storable.

I believe that syrup should be given in doses. If you give too much on 1 Sept the bees will take this down and store it. If you are planning to over-winter with just a brood chamber on this may restrict the area available for egg laying and therefore restrict the size of the winter colony. By feeding a few pints per week over four weeks or so the balance of stores:brood can be kept to the optimum

In my opinion fondant should only be used as an emergency winter feed. It can be put on at the very end of the season - say mid October and left on or can be used mid winter or early spring if hefting suggests that the colony is running short of stores