organic/Naturally

[pdb]

hello i am thinking by some of your replys that you think i whatch to much youtube and read to much so can you tell me what are the best organic/Naturally pest control and feed additives used in the uk or what do you all add to uur hives to help the bees thank you paul

 

[Teemore]

Hi pdb,
I have no idea whether you watch too much on YouTube. It is a media I have never bothered with for beekeeping information as any "free" time I have is taken up with other things. You can never read too much however - just develop the ability to filter sound advice from outdated quackery!!
Thymol and oxalic acid are two things which will help control varroa in your colonies. There is research which indicates that Thymol is also effective in controlling Nosema and it is one of the ingredients in "HiveAlive" which is said to help control Chalk brood.
There is a Sticky somewhere on the forum on "Hivemaker's Thymol Recipe". It is an informative read.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[Gilberdyke John]

hello i am thinking by some of your replys that you think i whatch to much youtube and read to much so can you tell me what are the best organic/Naturally pest control and feed additives used in the uk or what do you all add to uur hives to help the bees thank you paul

As Teemore has said we do use Thymol (Thyme) and Oxalic Acid (Rhubarb). These are tried and tested with demonstrable benefit. Most of us have high regard for the well being of our bees and leave the fad ideas to the fringe keepers and oddballs.
I appreciate you are a new member and your members description says you have nil hives. I strongly suggest you get hold of a sensible beekeeping book and join your local association where you can see and partake in real beekeeping.
Sticking so called natural products into a colony has the potential to do far more harm than good. Deadly Nightshade, Ragwort and Foxgloves are natural but consuming their derivatives can kill.

 

[BeeJayBee]

hello i am thinking by some of your replys that you think i whatch to much youtube and read to much so can you tell me what are the best organic/Naturally pest control and feed additives used in the uk or what do you all add to uur hives to help the bees thank you paul

There's nothing wrong with watching youtube, but you need to filter out the dross.

There are 'chemical free' beekeepers who only use sugar dusting to control varroa. Some of these beekeepers also acknowledge that their colonies might die.

Try reading this article by Randy Oliver http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-rules-for-successful-beekeeping/ it might help you balance what your aims are.

Think, too, what you would do if your dog or cat was sick or infested with parasites, then transfer that level of care to your bees.

 

[madasafish]

I've tried natural.

Many of the most vociferous advocates lose many hives in winter - and try not to tell anyone of the disadvantages.

Anyone who advocates a method of beekeeping and does not tell newcomers of the potential disadvantages is a charlatan. There are unfortunately a few around. And equally unfortunately, many of the disadvantages are fatal to bees.

 

[Little John]

I neither treat bees, nor give them feed additives, nor over-insulate their hives - if they're genetically weak, prone to disease, or can't hack our relatively mild climate - then it's better for the long-term future of their species that they're dead. That's nature's way: letting the weaker fall by the wayside in order to let stronger genes flourish.

I do however, treat the varroa mite, as that's a human-introduced parasite and not a disease. Oxalic acid vapour - it kills 'em stone dead.

LJ

 

[Davelin]

I neither treat bees, nor give them feed additives, nor over-insulate their hives - if they're genetically weak, prone to disease, or can't hack our relatively mild climate - then it's better for the long-term future of their species that they're dead. That's nature's way: letter the weaker fall by the wayside in order to let stronger genes flourish.


LJ

Do you apply the same philosophy to your children?

 

[dpearce4]

Do you apply the same philosophy to your children?

Haha. If so I have some you can work with.

 

[REDWOOD]

Varroa treatment and that's about it for bees except for Hivemakers thymol magical feed and to be honest I don't think there is anything else on the market you need.

 

[Little John]

Do you apply the same philosophy to your children?

But they're NOT my children - so it's a bit of a silly question, don't you think ?

Now if you'd asked me whether I adopted the same approach to a pet - say, a dog - then I've have said no.

BUT - if I were a dog breeder, then I would have said yes. For it would be totally irresponsible to continue to breed from a genetic line which required constant medication in order for it to survive.

And all beekeepers are bee breeders, whether they wish to be or not - for they release drones into the gene pool. So - I'd say beekeepers are actually being irresponsible by continually prophylactically medicating their bees, and masking genetic weaknesses by their actions.

LJ

 

[Davelin]

No I don't think it's a silly question at all.

If you advocate survival of the fittest and only allowing animals to survive that can do so without any medication, then why not apply that to the human race?

I never mentioned or advocated prophylactic treatment, but if my dog were ill I'd take it to the vets and use antibiotics if needed.

If it had a genetic defect then, no, I wouldn't breed from it, but that's totally different from treating disease.

Having said that there is practically nothing prescribable for bees, but I have treated nosemic hives with vitafeed and they have flourished, better than letting them wither in my book.

I have also used hive alive in autumn feed and my bees were much stronger in the spring from it (probably just the thymol).

I would not just leave a colony to die if I thought I could do something to save it.

 

[pargyle]

hello i am thinking by some of your replys that you think i whatch to much youtube and read to much so can you tell me what are the best organic/Naturally pest control and feed additives used in the uk or what do you all add to uur hives to help the bees thank you paul

Well .. dragging the thread back to the original question. This is my second year without treating my bees with anything. They are fit and healthy, strong colonies and (at present) with very low varroa counts.

I would prefer not to treat but I'm a realist and if there appears to be something wrong then I'm not averse to the likes of Thymol or possibly OA. But, if I can manage without and the bees are OK then that's what I'm doing.

HOWEVER ... it takes more effort to manage your colonies without treating than it does to follow the prescribed 'treatment' paths. I monitor constantly for Varroa in a variety of ways and I do uncap drone cells on a regular basis - not culling - investigating what the levels of mites are in the cells. You have to be able to spend time and effort checking mite levels because as many on here will tell you ... they can run away very quickly if they get established and weak or dying colonies are the result.

There's also an element of luck involved - so far I've been lucky - I don't know whether it's my bees, the location I live in, the areas that they forage, the fact that they swarmed and there would have been a brood break, the way I allow them to live or the ley lines the hives are sited on ... I'm just thankful that it's working - but vigilance is the key.

Finman's prediction for this 'one hive owner' was my bees would be dead by spring - well, they're weren't and they are not and I've got three good colonies going into winter this year and in the same way.

It's not a course I would recommend for everyone - it's my way - but I'm pragmatic about it.

 

[moo]

Counting varroa is not the point... I refuse to partake in that. I dont count nosema spores or acarine mites but I do take note when symptoms appear just in case action is required. The point in not treating is to let the natural microbial balance within the hive stabilise and then start breeding from survivors. There are factors that need to be met before stopping your oxalic and thymol treatments tho... like getting contaminated wax replaced and moving to natural/small cell. If you dont do that continuing treatment is the only way as they will succumb to varroa.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I thought the small cell thing was a nonsense?

 

[Dishmop]

I've tried natural.

Many of the most vociferous advocates lose many hives in winter - and try not to tell anyone of the disadvantages.

Anyone who advocates a method of beekeeping and does not tell newcomers of the potential disadvantages is a charlatan. There are unfortunately a few around. And equally unfortunately, many of the disadvantages are fatal to bees.

any many beeks who do treat also loose colonies....

 

[madasafish]

any many beeks who do treat also loose colonies....

Yes. Of course.

But rarely ALL their colonies

 

[Dishmop]

Yes. Of course.

But rarely ALL their colonies

Any known reason why?


I dont know of anybody who lost any colonies who was able to ascertain that it was varroa which was the cause of the lost.

 

[moo]

I thought the small cell thing was a nonsense?

not nonsense.. just not the silver bullet people are always searching for... there isnt one, just a whole natural system that needs to be working together and letting drone cells be drone sized and worker be nbatural worker is part of it.