Opting out of BDI

[MuswellMetro]

A local association near mine but in the same county has opted out of BDI insurance as the payouts have been so low at £30 to £45

They at the county meeting said Yorkshire had done the same but BDI were now saying it would invalidate all BDI insurance in the area if a BKA pulled

Now we are in an urban area with lots of crossover between associations and no Association defined boundaries ( i live in one BKA area ,have bees in another county and main hives in my own BKA area within a mile of a third BKAs members hives), i even report to two different RBIs

so if my BKA pulls out of BDI will that invalidate all other BDI in the hives near my bees

 

[Hivemaker.]

Sounds like BDI is doomed.

 

[Black Comb]

Sounds like BDI are spitting their dummy out.
There are no defined local association geographical areas to my knowledge.
Another reason that county associations are redundant?

 

[Tom Bick]

It's typical of insurance companies these days always looking and setting plenty of wriggle room.

 

[oliver90owner]

doomed

The sooner, the better.

Blanket charging for something that not all beekeepers perhaps want, is a thieving way to go on, IMO. Their get-outs are also rediculous - perhaps meaning that if a swarm happens to descend upon your apiary, you may be refused cover! Not even allowed to breed replacement queens in apidae, I wouldn't be surprised! The payments are derisory and one claim would reduce any later payment wherever you might keep your bees. Just not worth it, IMO...

Certainly a good idea for those that are not in the game for long and wouldn't recognise a brood disease if they had a case, and so have little incentive to apply sensible bio-security measures.

RAB

 

[HaroldC]

I think it depends how BDI membership is structured. BKA Membership of BDI can be either be structured on a per division/branch basis in which case the returns are made by the nominated person in that association or on a per area [county] basis in which case returns are made centrally. I would think, therefore, that in the first case a division/branch could pull out of BDI but in the second case it would be more difficult.

 

[Russel]

My understanding of their cover is you're not covered if you share the same apiary with someone who under declares at time of claim and not someone near you.
Surely it would be the same as at present for those near anyone that keeps bees but does not wish to belong to a BKA and therefore probably has no insurance of any kind?
If BDI pulled that one it may have the opposite effect with everyone opting out.

 

[mbc]

doomed

The sooner, the better.

Blanket charging for something that not all beekeepers perhaps want, is a thieving way to go on, IMO. Their get-outs are also rediculous - perhaps meaning that if a swarm happens to descend upon your apiary, you may be refused cover! Not even allowed to breed replacement queens in apidae, I wouldn't be surprised! The payments are derisory and one claim would reduce any later payment wherever you might keep your bees. Just not worth it, IMO...

Yup, its a con. Insurance company go on in a thieving manner SHOCKER

 

[susbees]

There surely cannot be any enforceable way to stop you deliberately underpaying? 1-3 hives is "pence". Individual decision without local stressful debate IMO.

 

[Norfolk]

My understanding of their cover is you're not covered if you share the same apiary with someone who under declares at time of claim and not someone near you.........

Seems to me that it would be the same if you were involved in a motorway pileup and your insurance company said "sorry but we won't be paying out as the guy in the next lane to you wasn't insured"

 

[MuswellMetro]

My understanding of their cover is you're not covered if you share the same apiary with someone who under declares at time of claim and not someone near you.
Surely it would be the same as at present for those near anyone that keeps bees but does not wish to belong to a BKA and therefore probably has no insurance of any kind?
If BDI pulled that one it may have the opposite effect with everyone opting out.

The discussions by the opted out BKA seem to indicate that the BDI's veiw is that even a non insured Hive outside your apairy may invalidate the insurance if the hive is close to your apiary,

I have bees in an apairy that is adjacent to an old stable block with two feral colonies in the chimneys, Now thoses feral colonies predate the apairy, Have i invalaidated my BDI by placing my apairy too close to the ferals ( they issue 3 swarms a year and are an old black bee not yellows like mine)

 

[pargyle]

Well ... I'm a newish beekeeper and my association subscribes to BDI. I know what to look for in terms of foul brood (RAB !) but, as my hive is home made, in the awful event that I did face infection, I doubt very much that I would receive any payout.

I've just been looking at the BDI Website and their payouts are not based on 'new for old' or even market value ... it appears that the value of hives and equipment is subject to assessment of 'condition' by the Bee Inspector when they are condemned. As good quality hives can last tens of years I suspect that BDI will take the view (as Insurance companies often do) that the residual value is based on the original cost devalued by the time it has been in use. A formula that, actually, may not apply to cedar hives ... which, in some cases, will be worth more than they were new !

I would suggest, and this applies to all items you have insured (not just beekeeping), that you keep copies of all receipts appertaining to the purchase, ensure that equipment is maintained in good order and be prepared to argue, until the cows come home, with the insurers about the settlement value if and when you have to make a claim.

I had a van, some years ago, which caught fire (a fuel line split) and the original offer from the insurers was £600. I finally settled on £1300 as I had receipts covering the maintenance and repairs over a long period and was able to demonstrate, using adverts for similar vehicles for sale, that their original offer was derisory.

BDI does not appear to cover the cost of replacement bees which is probably the more devastating impact on beekeeping finance in the event of a colony having to be destroyed - I find this a little odd ?

However, it was the third part liability insurance through the BBKA that was mostly of interest to me and I didn't think that you could have the general insurance without the BDI ?

Our Association AGM is tomorrow night and I think a question has to be asked. I don't have a problem with BDI ... they appear to be a non-profit organisation run by volunteer directors (although there are 12 of them !) and it is owned by the Associations who subscribe but there seems to be a concensus on here that it's a waste of money ?

So ... if disease insurance is not worth the premiums that are charged then perhaps it should be disbanded generally ?

 

[Pete D]

I have BDI and just renewed along with my local and BBK associations.
I have 2 other beekeepers about 3/4 mile from me who live 100m apart, one in BDI and the other not.
Are both he and I at risk of no pay out if other chap isnt covered.

I just paid the maximum to cover upto 39 hives !

Maybe a BDI person will read this thread and respond

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have BDI and just renewed along with my local and BBK associations.
I have 2 other beekeepers about 3/4 mile from me who live 100m apart, one in BDI and the other not.
Are both he and I at risk of no pay out if other chap isnt covered.

I just paid the maximum to cover upto 39 hives !

Maybe a BDI person will read this thread and respond

it could have just been the BDI putting a frightener to get the BKA to join BDI

Has Yorkshire Actually opted out, of BDI as my source was just hearsay, any Yorkies out there?

what we can actual claim/ No HIVE , No Bees No Wax

Compensation Rates for 2014 season

The rates of compensation for property insured are:-
British Standard Brood Frame £2.20
All other Brood Frame sizes £3.05
British Standard Shallow Frame £1.65
All other Shallow Frame sizes £2.25
Slotted Zinc Queen Excluder £6.55
Wire Queen Excluder £15.15
Plastic Queen Excluder £4.00
Polycarbonate Quilt £16.15
Open Mesh Floors £10.00
Saleable Honey (40lb maximum) £2.50/lb

Subject to Condition – Excellent-as New, Good or Poor.
No other property will be paid for. e.g. hive bodies are not covered.
Top bars for TBH/Warre hives will not be included under “Any other frame size””
Compensation for destruction due to Small Hive Beetle incorporates a hive allowance.
If claims have been made in the previous two consecutive seasons compensation will be reduced by 25%.
If claims have been made in the previous three consecutive seasons compensation will be reduced by 50%.
The maximum compensation payable to an individual is £2,500 in any one year of insurance

 

[Pete D]

My local association have just stopped doing beecraft for members as every year the end up out of pocket due to the way it renews.
Members will miss out on the small amount of discount but can buy it themselves, meanwhile sales of feeds, treatments and sundries is on the up and makes membership worthwhile.
Not sure how many will renew themselves, dont think I will as bbka news is probably enough although I might try quarterly this year.

 

[itma]

...
However, it was the third part liability insurance through the BBKA that was mostly of interest to me and I didn't think that you could have the general insurance without the BDI ?

Our Association AGM is tomorrow night and I think a question has to be asked. ...

Since your question is of general interest, it is reasonable that it be asked in the open meeting and a statement made to all the members.

However, if you are wanting a detailed and authoritative reply that you can legally rely upon, you need to give prior notice of the question (don't spring it on someone in the middle of the meeting) and then get written confirmation from someone authorised to make whatever statement.


My own understanding is that the 3rd party and (primary) product liability insurance is a BBKA membership benefit for certain classes of member and totally separate from the independent BDI.
However, your Association may only have membership 'packages' that automatically link the two different items.

 

[Chris B]

BDI was sitting on reserves of about half a million quid last time I checked.

Hypothetical scenario - associations quit one by one until only one left. Does that BKA inherit the lot?

 

[pargyle]

Since your question is of general interest, it is reasonable that it be asked in the open meeting and a statement made to all the members.

However, if you are wanting a detailed and authoritative reply that you can legally rely upon, you need to give prior notice of the question (don't spring it on someone in the middle of the meeting) and then get written confirmation from someone authorised to make whatever statement.


My own understanding is that the 3rd party and (primary) product liability insurance is a BBKA membership benefit for certain classes of member and totally separate from the independent BDI.
However, your Association may only have membership 'packages' that automatically link the two different items.

Yes ... good advice, thanks. I really don't know what the situation is in our BKA so my question is more out of interest than for reasons of opting out at present. It's a bit late to table a formal question but an AOB question with an answer in the association magazine later on would be fine as far as I am concerned.

 

[alanf]

as my hive is home made, in the awful event that I did face infection, I doubt very much that I would receive any payout.

Top bar and Warre are explicitly excluded "Why are top bars from TBH/Warre hives not covered? The top bars are usually home made and the compensation rate includes the cost of foundation that isn't normally used. It has been stated on the compensation rates section to avoid misunderstanding." from the FAQ http://www.beediseasesinsurance.co.uk/about-1/learn-more

it appears that the value of hives and equipment is subject to assessment of 'condition' by the Bee Inspector when they are condemned. As good quality hives can last tens of years I suspect that BDI will take the view (as Insurance companies often do) that the residual value is based on the original cost devalued by the time it has been in use. A formula that, actually, may not apply to cedar hives ... which, in some cases, will be worth more than they were new !

The boxes that make up a hives are not covered. neither are the bees. Only the contents and a few fittings count for compensation, i.e. frames, foundation, honey and queen excluders. The reasoning for fittings escapes me, is a galvanised QX less sterilizable than a super box? You may be able to argue that the frames and foundation newer than the inspector estimated but what the cedar box cost originally is irrelevant.

However, it was the third part liability insurance through the BBKA that was mostly of interest to me and I didn't think that you could have the general insurance without the BDI ?

Completely separate and cover different risks. Some associations who are not affiliated to BBKA subscribe to BDI and vice versa.

Our Association AGM is tomorrow night and I think a question has to be asked. I don't have a problem with BDI ... they appear to be a non-profit organisation run by volunteer directors (although there are 12 of them !) and it is owned by the Associations who subscribe but there seems to be a consensus on here that it's a waste of money ?

If BDI is not value for money, it doesn't matter who runs it. Plenty of mutual building societies have become uncompetitive and either been taken over or merged.

I'm not a lawyer or insurance assessor, these are just my views based on discussion in the past and careful reading of the BDI documentation. I suspect that, as any insurance, the ultimate decision of what they can and can't do rests with the insurance regulator, you'd probably need to take up a case with the financial ombudsman service.

 

[HaroldC]

My own understanding is that the 3rd party and (primary) product liability insurance is a BBKA membership benefit for certain classes of member and totally separate from the independent BDI.
However, your Association may only have membership 'packages' that automatically link the two different items.

You membership fee is typically made up of three or four elements:- BBKA capitation; BDI premium; Area [county] capitation [if there is one]; local BKA. There may be an additional charge if your association enables you to subscribe to Bee Craft or Beekeepers Quarterly and there may be a charge to cover postage of your newsletter if you dont have email.

Third Party and [primary] Product Liability Insurance is a benefit of membership of the BBKA for Registered and Partner members. This comes out of your BBKA capitation. The Bee Disease Insurance premium is paid to BDI which is seperate organisation from the BBKA.