Old comb accumulating dirt

[Anthony Appleyard]

As comb gets old, as it accumulates rubbish ("slumgum"): cocoons, larva skins, pupa cases, etc: if an area of comb is used continually for breeding, how long is it before the comb cell walls are so bulked out with this rubbish that there is not enough room any more for the bees to breed in it?

How old should beekeepers let old comb remain before he should rip it out and reprocess it for the beeswax in it?

As bees must rework wax (e.g. capping or uncapping cells, or building or destroying queen cells), how more difficult it is for them to rework wax if it is full of old pupa cases and suchlike incorporated in it?

 

[Erichalfbee]

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smalboldcomb.html

I work out old comb every two or three years. To paraphrase Finnie, “ when you can’t see through it”
Supers, when they fall apart in the spinner.

 

[Poly Hive]

This is the modern take on things but back in the day pre VD, the parasite not the clinic, *sheesh* Combs were replaced when they were very droney and not before. I knew people who were sure that some of their combs were over 50 years old.

Just saying, as they say.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

As they age the interior area gets smaller and the bees that emerge are smaller. Whether this has a major affect on the hive as a whole is unclear, but a few papers have suggested that queens preferentially like "new " comb.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As they age the interior area gets smaller and the bees that emerge are smaller. Whether this has a major affect on the hive as a whole is unclear, but a few papers have suggested that queens preferentially like "new " comb.

If bees are smaller will they take less time from egg to adult?
I would be like having small cell

 

[Beefriendly]

No.

 

[Anthony Appleyard]

Effects of old comb

This is pointed out in Delaplane's article attached to Beefriendly's article of 04:33 PM 23 Feb 2020: page 4 (paragraph starting "In the wild, honey bee colonies are known") and page 7 (paragraph starting "Another phenomenon relevant to this study").

 

[Murox]

JENNIFER A BERRY; KEITH S DELAPLANE
Department of Entomology, University of Georgia, Athens, Georgia 30602, USA
(Received 10 January 2000, accepted subject to revision 17 July 2000, accepted for publication 28 September 2000)

This 20 year old American based study states in the last sentence of the summary that
"Brood survivorship was the only variable significantly higher in old comb."

 

[Poly Hive]

The decrease in the cell size was debunked I seem to remember.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The decrease in the cell size was debunked I seem to remember.

PH

No, you are thinking of small cell theory that some get excited about - all about 'regressing' bees to build smaller cells to stop varroa (even thrones now sell 4.9mm foundation to keep the sandal wearers happy) THAT has been totally debunked.
Seeley in one of his talks at the UKBA conference last weekend affirmed that older brood cells do get smaller but when someone mentioned small cell theory he just rolled his eyes and sniggered.

 

[Millet]

I have brood frames and comb that is still getting used that is over 5yrs old..i have not noticed the Queen taking preference for new over old..

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have brood frames and comb that is still getting used that is over 5yrs old..i have not noticed the Queen taking preference for new over old..

But have you noticed smaller bees?

 

[Millet]

But have you noticed smaller bees?

To be honest No well not a noticeable difference which i suppose would be hard to see on some of the bigger colonies..

 

[xray7]

Two points to add to this thread

I believe in Denmark they shook swarm on to new foundation every year to minimise risk of pathogens etc.

Also in my experience queens love to lay in new comb and it is a wonderful sight to see a whole frame of eggs in freshly drawn comb.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I believe in Denmark they shook swarm on to new foundation every year to minimise risk of pathogens etc.

.

Thank heavens we have more sense than the Danes?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I believe in Denmark they shook swarm on to new foundation every year to minimise risk of pathogens etc.

No they don't

 

[Murox]

Two points to add to this thread

I believe in Denmark they shook swarm on to new foundation every year to minimise risk of pathogens etc.

Also in my experience queens love to lay in new comb and it is a wonderful sight to see a whole frame of eggs in freshly drawn comb.

Why would you do that? It forces them to begin a very time and resource consuming process unnecessarily, and it gives you more work. Bees have to eat something like 8lbs of honey (how much nectar would that be?) to get enough energy to produce 1lb of wax and draw the comb. Then of course they won't draw foundation unless they have an immediate need for it and there must be a flow either real or artificial for them to draw foundation.

I can't believe annual shook swarming technique do anything other than reduce a potential crop and maybe slows/prevents swarming. Cycling out old brood comb seems to work very well without causing undue stress on the colony or me.

 

[enrico]

But have you noticed smaller bees?

Does it matter? Bees are bees. The size is pretty irrelevant. If that was the case evolution would probably have them the size of ants now!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Does it matter? Bees are bees. The size is pretty irrelevant. If that was the case evolution would probably have them the size of ants now!

Of course it doesn’t matter
However after Nigel said that bees got smaller in old comb and Steve said he had five year old comb in some of his hives I simply wondered if he had noticed.

 

[Finman]

.
If combs are too old , bees bite down them and build new cells. So they do if combs are molded.